Jan 4, 2021, 1:37 am
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
This is an archive thread, the archive thread is https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/1960195-b737max-cleared-faa-resume-passenger-flights-when-will-ua-max-flights-resume.html
Thread Topic
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
United does not fly the 737 MAX 8 that has been involved in two recent crashes, but it does operate the 737 MAX 9.
How to tell if your flight is scheduled to be operated by the MAX 9:
View your reservation or flight status page, either on the web or on the app. United lists the entire aircraft type. Every flight that is scheduled to be on the 737 MAX will say "Boeing 737 MAX 9." If you see anything else -- for example, "Boeing 737-900," it is not scheduled to be a MAX at this time.
The same is true in search results and anywhere else on the United site.
For advanced users: UA uses the three letter IATA identifier 7M9 for the 737 MAX 9.
All 737 MAX aircraft worldwide (MAX 8, MAX 9, and MAX 10) are currently grounded.
Thread Topic
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
READ BEFORE POSTING
Once again many posters in this thread have forgotten the FT rules and resorted to "Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming " and other non-collegial, non-civil discourse. This is not allowed.
Posters appear to be talking at others, talking about others, not discussing the core issues. Repeating the same statements, saying the same thing LOUDER is not civil discourse. These problems are not with one poster, they are not just one point of view, ...
As useful as some discussion here has been, continuing rules violations will lead to suspensions and thread closure. Please think about that before posting.
The purpose of FT is to be an informative forum that, in this case, enables the UA flyer to enhance their travel experience. There are other forums for different types of discussions. This thread was had wide latitude but that latitude is being abused.
Bottom line, if you can not stay within the FT rules and the forum's topic areas, please do not post.
And before posting, ask if you are bringing new contributing information to the discussion -- not just repeating previous points, then please do not post.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
Once again many posters in this thread have forgotten the FT rules and resorted to "Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming " and other non-collegial, non-civil discourse. This is not allowed.
Posters appear to be talking at others, talking about others, not discussing the core issues. Repeating the same statements, saying the same thing LOUDER is not civil discourse. These problems are not with one poster, they are not just one point of view, ...
As useful as some discussion here has been, continuing rules violations will lead to suspensions and thread closure. Please think about that before posting.
The purpose of FT is to be an informative forum that, in this case, enables the UA flyer to enhance their travel experience. There are other forums for different types of discussions. This thread was had wide latitude but that latitude is being abused.
Bottom line, if you can not stay within the FT rules and the forum's topic areas, please do not post.
And before posting, ask if you are bringing new contributing information to the discussion -- not just repeating previous points, then please do not post.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
This thread has engendered some strongly felt opinions and a great tendency to wander into many peripherally related topics. By all normal FT moderation standards, this thread would have been permanently closed long ago ( and numerous members receiving disciplinary actions).
However, given the importance of the subject, the UA Moderators have tried to host this discussion but odd here as UA is not the top 1 or 2 or 3 for MAX among North America carriers. However, some have allowed their passion and non-UA related opinions to repeatedly disrupt this discussion.
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
Discussion of Boeing's culture or the impact on Boeing's future is not in scope. Nor is comments on restructuring the regulatory process. Neither is the impacts on COVID on the general air industry -- those are not UA specific and are better discussed elsewhere. And for discussion of UA's future, there is a separate thread.
Additionally repeated postings of essentially the same content should not happen nor unnecessarily inflammatory posts. And of course, the rest of FT posting rules apply including discuss the issue and not the posters.
The Moderator team feels there is a reason / need for this thread but it has been exhausting to have to repeated re-focus the discussion -- don't be the reason this thread is permanently closed ( and get yourself in disciplinary problems).
Stick to the relevant topic which is (repeating myself)
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
However, given the importance of the subject, the UA Moderators have tried to host this discussion but odd here as UA is not the top 1 or 2 or 3 for MAX among North America carriers. However, some have allowed their passion and non-UA related opinions to repeatedly disrupt this discussion.
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
Discussion of Boeing's culture or the impact on Boeing's future is not in scope. Nor is comments on restructuring the regulatory process. Neither is the impacts on COVID on the general air industry -- those are not UA specific and are better discussed elsewhere. And for discussion of UA's future, there is a separate thread.
Additionally repeated postings of essentially the same content should not happen nor unnecessarily inflammatory posts. And of course, the rest of FT posting rules apply including discuss the issue and not the posters.
The Moderator team feels there is a reason / need for this thread but it has been exhausting to have to repeated re-focus the discussion -- don't be the reason this thread is permanently closed ( and get yourself in disciplinary problems).
Stick to the relevant topic which is (repeating myself)
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
United does not fly the 737 MAX 8 that has been involved in two recent crashes, but it does operate the 737 MAX 9.
How to tell if your flight is scheduled to be operated by the MAX 9:
View your reservation or flight status page, either on the web or on the app. United lists the entire aircraft type. Every flight that is scheduled to be on the 737 MAX will say "Boeing 737 MAX 9." If you see anything else -- for example, "Boeing 737-900," it is not scheduled to be a MAX at this time.
The same is true in search results and anywhere else on the United site.
For advanced users: UA uses the three letter IATA identifier 7M9 for the 737 MAX 9.
All 737 MAX aircraft worldwide (MAX 8, MAX 9, and MAX 10) are currently grounded.
B737MAX Recertification - Archive
Apr 21, 2019, 7:03 pm
#1216
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: BOS
Programs: 1MM, UA 1k
Posts: 529
This appears to be the emotional response the NYT article was seeking.
My analogy was purely a response to the poor journalism, not the subject.
Responsible journalism wouldn't rely on anecdotal reports of "debris" left behind on new planes, but would investigate how such incidents at
Boeing's 787 N. Charleston plant compare to Boeing's other planes, other plants, and other manufacturers (such as Airbus, Bombardier, Comac, UAC, Embraer, etc...)
The purpose of the final inspection is to find faults in manufacture and/or improper cleaning of the final product.
In the cited paragraph, the inspector found and removed the left-over items.
My analogy was purely a response to the poor journalism, not the subject.
Responsible journalism wouldn't rely on anecdotal reports of "debris" left behind on new planes, but would investigate how such incidents at
Boeing's 787 N. Charleston plant compare to Boeing's other planes, other plants, and other manufacturers (such as Airbus, Bombardier, Comac, UAC, Embraer, etc...)
The purpose of the final inspection is to find faults in manufacture and/or improper cleaning of the final product.
In the cited paragraph, the inspector found and removed the left-over items.
Apr 21, 2019, 8:29 pm
#1217
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,361
In line with that thinking I am interested to see if the foreign agencies will actually require Boeing to certify the 737MAX as a different aircraft frame. If the FAA does not and other agencies do then it will be a USA domestic plane only, albeit with a long range.
Apr 22, 2019, 5:11 pm
#1219
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: USA
Programs: UA Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,195
That is what the airline said in their press releases but not everyone agrees with their conclusion.
https://seekingalpha.com/instablog/3...7NODddBu5xB358
https://seekingalpha.com/instablog/3...7NODddBu5xB358
Apr 22, 2019, 6:54 pm
#1220
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Let's say for the sake of the argument you are right (although I reiterate flying agencies elsewhere in the world do not see it that way and grounded the 737MAX before the FAA took any action), why are the 737NG planes not diving into the ground? Same airlines/same level of pilot training.
Apr 22, 2019, 7:15 pm
#1221
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SFO/SJC
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Posts: 2,350
Perhaps we should agree to disagree, you are arguing about the fault that precipitated the crashes while my position is that it doesn't matter how the planes got upset, the pilots could have and should have keep those people alive. They would all be alive today with competent pilots at the controls.
Not trying to opine one way or another on this specific incident, just saying that it's very easy for us to say that the pilot should and could have done certain things. That's always true, but the explanation isn't always incompetence.
Apr 22, 2019, 7:22 pm
#1222
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,866
"What people don’t get about why planes crash"
Interesting article today:
"A former accident investigator explains."
https://www.vox.com/first-person/201...ax-crash-plane
"THE WAY PILOTS INTERACT WITH TECHNOLOGY INTENDED TO PREVENT ERRORS CAN OFTEN CONTRIBUTE TO ACCIDENTS IN UNEXPECTED WAYS"
'
"A former accident investigator explains."
https://www.vox.com/first-person/201...ax-crash-plane
"THE WAY PILOTS INTERACT WITH TECHNOLOGY INTENDED TO PREVENT ERRORS CAN OFTEN CONTRIBUTE TO ACCIDENTS IN UNEXPECTED WAYS"
'
Apr 22, 2019, 7:41 pm
#1223
Moderator: Budget Travel forum & Credit Card Programs, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Programs: UA lifetime MM / *A Gold
Posts: 14,429
Sorry, article is so long I had to read it in two sittings (ADD is not fun
)And then forgot to come and thank for the link :blush: (ya, there is that ADD again)
Apr 23, 2019, 12:16 am
#1224
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,616
Interesting article today:
"A former accident investigator explains."
https://www.vox.com/first-person/201...ax-crash-plane
"THE WAY PILOTS INTERACT WITH TECHNOLOGY INTENDED TO PREVENT ERRORS CAN OFTEN CONTRIBUTE TO ACCIDENTS IN UNEXPECTED WAYS"
'
"A former accident investigator explains."
https://www.vox.com/first-person/201...ax-crash-plane
"THE WAY PILOTS INTERACT WITH TECHNOLOGY INTENDED TO PREVENT ERRORS CAN OFTEN CONTRIBUTE TO ACCIDENTS IN UNEXPECTED WAYS"
'
In the crash of an Asiana Airlines Boeing 777 landing in San Francisco in 2014, investigators determined that a contributing factor was the pilots’ over-reliance on automated systems which led to an erosion in their flying skills. The investigation of the fatal flight of an Air France Airbus A330 from Rio de Janeiro to Paris in 2009 led to the conclusion that the complexity of the fly-by-wire airplane befuddled the pilots.
Apr 23, 2019, 10:46 am
#1225
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: USA
Programs: UA Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,195
I have seen that phenomenon happen repeatedly over my career -- the more we automate, the more basic skills erode. That comes even more into play as less and less experience is expected to occupy positions of responsibility. One highlight of this tragedy ... I and others now know that European as well as Asian and African airlines allow FOs with relatively low levels of experience. One extremely experienced pilot mentoring a relatively junior one makes great sense when everything is benign but can go tragic quickly when things start to go wrong.
Apr 23, 2019, 1:33 pm
#1226
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: EWR
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Posts: 128
Is that true though? I was reading a post on another forum that ADD requires the captain to fly in an out of the airport due to it's hot and high nature. IIRC, while he was in his 20's, the ET captain had about 8000 hours.
Apr 23, 2019, 1:40 pm
#1227
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Last edited by l etoile; Apr 23, 2019 at 5:10 pm Reason: omni comment removed
Apr 23, 2019, 8:40 pm
#1228
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: USA
Programs: UA Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,195
Not completely. I believe the FO had 360 hours of flight experience. According to the analysis linked by LarryJ, the captain had significant experience but was busy trying to fly the plane. In the meantime, the FO committed several errors which compounded the situation. The facts remain that the 737 is one of the most successful airframes in aviation history, computer assist tends to be a an overall positive for many things including aviation but computer control can be quite problematic, and tragedies like this will continue to spur emotional reactions.
Apr 23, 2019, 8:45 pm
#1229
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 214
The plane that should’ve never been built. The NEO was a better aircraft with better engines and was capable of accepting a larger fan. The 737 should’ve been replaced 30 years ago and the 757 should still be here.
Its sad sad to see Boeing lose its way like this. The duopoly we have today with Airbus and Boeing is a direct cause of this. McDonnell Douglas needs to be here still in order to keep both honest.
Its sad sad to see Boeing lose its way like this. The duopoly we have today with Airbus and Boeing is a direct cause of this. McDonnell Douglas needs to be here still in order to keep both honest.
Apr 23, 2019, 8:47 pm
#1230
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