Were The Early 80's Really That Much Better On UA Than Now?
#196
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 4,129
This is definitely the one thing that gets me about some of the nostalgia, especially for "when Y was a nice experience". If you want to pay regulated Economy prices and get a decent flight, you still can.. it's called today's premium cabin
That being said, one thing that really depresses me about flying these days is how almost no one thinks it's special or magical anymore. We don't need to keep dressing up in coat and tie, but it's just sad to see pax in a spectrum between a belligerent, aggressive "come at me, do your worst, United" attitude and curling up in a ball praying it will be over one minute faster. People dress down to fly, try to sleep every second of the way, and now there is a deep-rooted cultural expectation that the flying experience is one of the most miserable times of your life rather than the excitement of a special trip. Pax used to be happier, and in even in premium cabins it's a very transactional "let's get this done with quickly" experience (admittedly also in keeping with the ever-faster pace of modern life).
That being said, one thing that really depresses me about flying these days is how almost no one thinks it's special or magical anymore. We don't need to keep dressing up in coat and tie, but it's just sad to see pax in a spectrum between a belligerent, aggressive "come at me, do your worst, United" attitude and curling up in a ball praying it will be over one minute faster. People dress down to fly, try to sleep every second of the way, and now there is a deep-rooted cultural expectation that the flying experience is one of the most miserable times of your life rather than the excitement of a special trip. Pax used to be happier, and in even in premium cabins it's a very transactional "let's get this done with quickly" experience (admittedly also in keeping with the ever-faster pace of modern life).
#197
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, UA Gold, WN, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
Posts: 14,423
I think the grand conceit is that the number of dollars to fly on a plane has never really gone down, and we are really, really bad at considering inflation.
#198
Join Date: Feb 2015
Programs: united
Posts: 1,636
It's hard to compete with random anecdotes ($99 is awfully cheap for a transcon back in the day, and all reliable sources concur that average fares have remained roughly constant in nominal dollars since 1930), but even today you can fly LAX-NYC round-trip for $72 (in 1982 dollars) or as little as $50 if you want to fly Frontier (and not non-stop). If "way back when" is before Carter-era inflation, then this difference becomes much more dramatic.
I think the grand conceit is that the number of dollars to fly on a plane has never really gone down, and we are really, really bad at considering inflation.
I think the grand conceit is that the number of dollars to fly on a plane has never really gone down, and we are really, really bad at considering inflation.
I paid $199 roundtrip with an advance purchase to fly BUR-SEA in 1981, the first ticket I bought with my own money. That is NOT actually cheaper than what it costs to fly that route today.
#199
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: NYC/WAS
Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL '90s PM, now FK (Flying Kettle)
Posts: 541
#200
Join Date: Feb 2015
Programs: united
Posts: 1,636
The airline alliance concept has improved flying worldwide (lounges, int'l recognition). But as you say, while premium seating is much better now, economy seating was considerably better back then. The passenger = sardine concept hadn't quite been finalized by the early 1980s. And despite technological advances in onboard food preparation, it hasn't worked to our (the passengers') advantage. Here is a list of what you could order a day in advance, even in domestic economy, for any PA flight 3 hours or greater. (I hesitate to post an international First Class menu because drooling can damage your keyboard.)
Are you sure about the date of this?
#201
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: NYC/WAS
Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL '90s PM, now FK (Flying Kettle)
Posts: 541
I flew Pan Am domestic economy (LAX-JFK-LAX) in the 1980's. Seat pitch was 31 inches, and none of this stuff was available. You got a standard airline meal. It was fine (and better than what international Y passengers get now), but nothing spectacular.
Are you sure about the date of this?
Are you sure about the date of this?
#202
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2000
Location: TPA for now. Hopefully LIS for retirement
Posts: 13,707
#203
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist, Virtuoso Travel Agent, Commercial Pilot
Posts: 2,117
It probably doesn't help that United stole the FAs pensions, but they're trapped working for a company they resent because moving to another airline would mean resetting their seniority and basically restarting their careers.
I imagine a fair number of flight attendants thought that they'd be retired by now.
I imagine a fair number of flight attendants thought that they'd be retired by now.
#204
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: NYC/WAS
Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL '90s PM, now FK (Flying Kettle)
Posts: 541
There are great crews, good crews, indifferent crews, and borderline-hostile crews, and always have been. The ratios of each have usually depended on the culture of the underlying airline (which I won't get into here). But the shift has been somewhat to the right along those groups. To be fair, the passengers have changed also, as have traveling conditions (security, dense seat packing, etc.). It's a whole different vibe, as I'm sure it also was different in the 1950s and early 1960s before I started flying.
#205
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hawai'i Nei
Programs: Au: UA, Marriott, Hilton; GE
Posts: 7,145
#206
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2000
Location: TPA for now. Hopefully LIS for retirement
Posts: 13,707
BTW, don't take me not listing UA in my profile as meaning that I try to avoid UA. I don't. It is just that WN and DL have much better schedules to where I need to go these days from Tampa, where I now live. And I LOVE LH's TPA-FRA nonstop - best way to go between Tampa and Europe by far. I do still occasionally travel UA if they have better flights, like when I visit family near IAD and SFO where UA has the only nonstops from TPA.
Which reminds me of another difference between then and now - an almost unlimited number of scheduling options to get from A to B these days. Look at airline timetables from a few decades ago - very few flights compared to today. From TPA for example, DL has hourly flights to ATL and from there you can get practically anywhere in the world, often nonstop. People knock the hub system but in terms of sheer numbers it really has opened up flight options to a degree that were unimaginable in the supposed good old days.
#207
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: TPA
Programs: United MP
Posts: 463
#208
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2000
Location: TPA for now. Hopefully LIS for retirement
Posts: 13,707
I disagree that the soft product is sub-par. The on-board service is identical to LH mainline. Same Business Class meals and lie-flat seats; same IFE; etc. (Or did you mean mainline LH Business is sub-par?)
I enjoy it and have had good experiences but I am pretty low maintenance. And you can't beat landing in TPA, going through a mellow U.S. customs / immigration check (very few int'l flights to Tampa) and being home in 20 minutes, instead of going through customs immigration at a huge place like ATL or EWR or somesuch with passengers from hundreds of other overseas flighs; then re-clearing TSA; then having to wait around for a connecting flight and still being hours from home when you are already exhausted.
Oops - off-topic - sorry!
#209
Join Date: Sep 2009
Programs: UA GS>1K>Nothing; DL DM 2MM; AS 75K>Nothing>MVP
Posts: 9,341
FAA dictates the number of crew on the flight and they don't care about the number of people serving drinks. They only care about the number of people who can help to evacuate the plane in an emergency. ISR's didn't serve drinks, but they reduced required headcount so the airlines could by with fewer unionized drink servers.
#210
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Denver, Colorado
Programs: IHG Spire, Hilton Honors Gold, Marriott Titanium, Mileage Plus Gold
Posts: 1,736
FAA dictates the number of crew on the flight and they don't care about the number of people serving drinks. They only care about the number of people who can help to evacuate the plane in an emergency. ISR's didn't serve drinks, but they reduced required headcount so the airlines could by with fewer unionized drink servers.