Were The Early 80's Really That Much Better On UA Than Now?
Dec 6, 2019, 10:42 am
#256
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 77
And while we love to hate (certain) RJs on FlyerTalk, they sure beat bouncing around in an un-pressurized United Express turbo-prop. This is a huge improvement over flying conditions in the 80s
Dec 6, 2019, 11:36 am
#257
Join Date: Dec 2018
Programs: UA
Posts: 104
Restaurants, primarily, and I would imagine some of the food cooked at home. The availability of a diverse and high-quality set of ethnic food has drastically increased in the last 50 years. "Fast food" now means Chipotle or Panera or a huge host of other competitors in the "fast casual" space instead of a McDonalds equivalent or nothing. You can get a decent beer in almost any bar, instead of Budweiser only. Our conception of dinner has evolved beyond tasteless steamed vegetables, meatloaf, and potatoes. So I think that plane food has a heck of a lot more to compete with today than it did in 1975. Even just in an airport terminal, the dining options are worlds better today then as recently as 1995.
Dec 6, 2019, 11:37 am
#258
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 4,127
Let's be clear here. There are a few mainline jets that have some 30 inch pitch seat. That's a significant reduction. I have never said otherwise.
But most seat pitch is at 31. You know what it was when I started flying? 31-32. The sentences you are referring to are poorly (and I would argue dishonestly) worded, but what they are saying is this- there used to be some errant 33's and 34's around, and now there aren't. Which is half-true- there are, but you have to pay for them (economy plus). And there used to be no 30's, but now there are a few.
But the only thing that the article says is bringing the average down is the proliferation of RJ's, many of which have terrible pitch. Which is also true.
But bottom line, a traveler who purchases Economy Plus is getting better seat pitch then I got on almost all of my Y flights in the 1980's and 1990's. Seriously, the only times I got more pitch in economy was when I lucked into an exit row. Rest of the time, modern E+ is better. It costs money, but it's better.
And honestly, nobody here should be opposed to spending that money. First of all, if you fly enough you get it for free. But even if you don't- it's not like any of us are flying Spirit with its 28 inch pitch. We all think it's worth extra money to fly United, right? So it's worth a little on top of that to fly economy plus, and a little on top of that to get a much better meal at an airline terminal. Having to spend additional money is not some sort of outrage, especially since air travel is cheap by historical standards.
But most seat pitch is at 31. You know what it was when I started flying? 31-32. The sentences you are referring to are poorly (and I would argue dishonestly) worded, but what they are saying is this- there used to be some errant 33's and 34's around, and now there aren't. Which is half-true- there are, but you have to pay for them (economy plus). And there used to be no 30's, but now there are a few.
But the only thing that the article says is bringing the average down is the proliferation of RJ's, many of which have terrible pitch. Which is also true.
But bottom line, a traveler who purchases Economy Plus is getting better seat pitch then I got on almost all of my Y flights in the 1980's and 1990's. Seriously, the only times I got more pitch in economy was when I lucked into an exit row. Rest of the time, modern E+ is better. It costs money, but it's better.
And honestly, nobody here should be opposed to spending that money. First of all, if you fly enough you get it for free. But even if you don't- it's not like any of us are flying Spirit with its 28 inch pitch. We all think it's worth extra money to fly United, right? So it's worth a little on top of that to fly economy plus, and a little on top of that to get a much better meal at an airline terminal. Having to spend additional money is not some sort of outrage, especially since air travel is cheap by historical standards.
Dec 6, 2019, 11:49 am
#259
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 734
Was it Colombo, Sri Lanka?
Dec 6, 2019, 12:49 pm
#262
Join Date: May 2010
Location: AVP & PEK
Programs: UA 1K 1.9MM
Posts: 6,357
I recall a flight on one of those puddle jumpers (UA or CO, I forget) in the 90's.
Flight was Buffalo, NY to EWR. Took off. Pretty bouncy.
Shortly before EWR, captain says EWR closed, will re-route to Albany, NY.
Shortly before Albany, captain announces Albany now also closed, so re-route back to Buffalo.
FA falls at one point due to turbulence, but not before throwing some trays in the air. A few pax hit their head. Some interesting minutes later we land safe-and(mostly)-sound in Rochester, NY.
Total in-air time about 1 hour 40 minutes, IIRC, for about 70 miles actual distance from starting point.
I believe that was the last time I flew one of those things...
Dec 6, 2019, 12:53 pm
#263
Join Date: Feb 2015
Programs: united
Posts: 1,636
Not untrue! ^
I recall a flight on one of those puddle jumpers (UA or CO, I forget) in the 90's.
Flight was Buffalo, NY to EWR. Took off. Pretty bouncy.
Shortly before EWR, captain says EWR closed, will re-route to Albany, NY.
Shortly before Albany, captain announces Albany now also closed, so re-route back to Buffalo.
FA falls at one point due to turbulence, but not before throwing some trays in the air. A few pax hit their head. Some interesting minutes later we land safe-and(mostly)-sound in Rochester, NY.
Total in-air time about 1 hour 40 minutes, IIRC, for about 70 miles actual distance from starting point.
I believe that was the last time I flew one of those things...
I recall a flight on one of those puddle jumpers (UA or CO, I forget) in the 90's.
Flight was Buffalo, NY to EWR. Took off. Pretty bouncy.
Shortly before EWR, captain says EWR closed, will re-route to Albany, NY.
Shortly before Albany, captain announces Albany now also closed, so re-route back to Buffalo.
FA falls at one point due to turbulence, but not before throwing some trays in the air. A few pax hit their head. Some interesting minutes later we land safe-and(mostly)-sound in Rochester, NY.
Total in-air time about 1 hour 40 minutes, IIRC, for about 70 miles actual distance from starting point.
I believe that was the last time I flew one of those things...
And I saw, as we tried to land at SEA in a terrible thunderstom, the airplane get blown way way off the course of the runway, and the pilot having to dive back to get the plane on the ground in the right spot. It was literally the only time I have ever been scared on an airplane.
Dec 6, 2019, 1:35 pm
#264
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2006
Location: DTW, but drive to/from YYZ/ORD
Programs: Chase Ultimate Rewards 2MM, Diner Club points
Posts: 31,920
"Fast food" now means Chipotle or Panera or a huge host of other competitors in the "fast casual" space instead of a McDonalds equivalent or nothing. You can get a decent beer in almost any bar, instead of Budweiser only. Our conception of dinner has evolved beyond tasteless steamed vegetables, meatloaf, and potatoes.
Dec 6, 2019, 1:54 pm
#265
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, UA Gold, WN, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
Posts: 14,422
Yes? I'm not quite sure the level of sarcasm here - neither McDonalds nor Budweiser were ever in Soviet Russia, and I won't comment on Soviet cuisine but "steak and potatoes" is the stereotypical American dinner and they're not talking filet mignon.
I can't really quantify any of these, but I really don't think there's much argument that the quality and variety of food and drink in average restaurants is much higher today than in the 80s. I can certainly vouch on the beer front that local brewing is a new phenomenon. Ok, maybe there was Miller or Coors or Yuengling but hardly anything more than that.
I can't really quantify any of these, but I really don't think there's much argument that the quality and variety of food and drink in average restaurants is much higher today than in the 80s. I can certainly vouch on the beer front that local brewing is a new phenomenon. Ok, maybe there was Miller or Coors or Yuengling but hardly anything more than that.
Dec 6, 2019, 1:56 pm
#266
Join Date: Feb 2015
Programs: united
Posts: 1,636
In the suburb I grew up in, in 1983, there were two nice steakhouses, and two Denny's equivalents. And then there was some fast food. You could drive a few miles for some culinary variety.
Nowadays, that same place, with the same population, has a whole bunch of good chain restaurants and ethnic food places.
Nowadays, that same place, with the same population, has a whole bunch of good chain restaurants and ethnic food places.
Dec 6, 2019, 2:30 pm
#267
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Pacific Wonderland
Programs: ʙᴏɴᴠo̱ʏ Au, IHG Au, HH Dia, Nexus, Pilot FlyingJ Preferred
Posts: 5,336
Getting back on track, another thing that's mostly disappeared is tarmac delays. I can recall flying through ORD around 1990 in a developing blizzard and was on the plane 5+ hours, most of that was waiting to return to a gate. Luckily for young me, there was Channel 9. I remember getting amenity kits from a UA agent after deboarding too. Branded plastic case with toothbrush/toothpaste/razor/cream inside. Of course, all hotels were booked solid by then.
Last edited by rustykettel; Dec 6, 2019 at 2:35 pm
Dec 6, 2019, 4:23 pm
#268
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2006
Location: DTW, but drive to/from YYZ/ORD
Programs: Chase Ultimate Rewards 2MM, Diner Club points
Posts: 31,920
Nowadays, that same place, with the same population, has a whole bunch of good chain restaurants and ethnic food places.
The original comment used the term "better". The fact that there's more types of food just means exactly that , there's more variety. Is the average fast food burger or steakhouse steak or whatever "better"? I submit not.
Airplane food can be miles "better" and still just have a choice of chicken or beef.
Dec 6, 2019, 4:43 pm
#269
Join Date: Feb 2015
Programs: united
Posts: 1,636
The original comment used the term "better". The fact that there's more types of food just means exactly that , there's more variety. Is the average fast food burger or steakhouse steak or whatever "better"? I submit not.
Airplane food can be miles "better" and still just have a choice of chicken or beef.
Airplane food can be miles "better" and still just have a choice of chicken or beef.
Dec 6, 2019, 5:35 pm
#270
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2019
Programs: Delta Platinum Medallion, Hilton HHonors, AAdvantage, Tier 8 Status - Hotel Tonight
Posts: 103
I was only alive for a few years in the 1980s but I can safely say that in the late 1990s flying United was better than now. Overhead IFE or looped PTVs and the meals in Economy were good. In Economy, I remember flying MIA-ORD-EWR and getting a full breakfast on a 777 on MIA-ORD and a cheeseburger on ORD-EWR which was on a 757 in 2000. The seats on the 757 were older though and the interior looked a bit worn at the time.
CO was a different story. The meals served in Coach were the same in 1995 as they were in 2006 believe it or not. They were never all that great but were heavily promoted right before they discontinued them.
COEX service on the ATRs to EWR = Woof. Almost crashed landed in one flying BTV-EWR in 1993 and near motion sickness on MHT-EWR in 1999.
CO was a different story. The meals served in Coach were the same in 1995 as they were in 2006 believe it or not. They were never all that great but were heavily promoted right before they discontinued them.
COEX service on the ATRs to EWR = Woof. Almost crashed landed in one flying BTV-EWR in 1993 and near motion sickness on MHT-EWR in 1999.