Nov 2, 2019, 11:43 pm
Last edit by: zebranz
So, is anything happening with this? Just curious (Oct 3, 2019)
If you paid cash for a lifetime Club membership and would like to join a potential class action due to this material change, please post your username here:
ctownflyer
hog Heaven
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Buster CT1K
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zebranz
If you received a lifetime Club membership from the UA MM program and would like to join a potential class action, please post your username here:
deek
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seacarl
Related thread: Club member/one-time pass access changes Nov 1, 2019 (same day BP on UA or partner) Original thread -- focused on the basic access issue, most lifetime membership posts have been moved to this lifetime thread
If you paid cash for a lifetime Club membership and would like to join a potential class action due to this material change, please post your username here:
ctownflyer
hog Heaven
AAdmiral
nsx + 1
RichardInSF
Sykes
soartoday
lax2jfk2lax
libuser + 1
Xyzzy + 1
Buster CT1K
1K Student
Elitefreak
flyer austin + 1 (wiki-restricted member, added by IAH-OIL-TRASH)
Radonc1 + 1 (not a FT member but has LT membership)
Halo117
mikey
Mnmag
Vulcan
lateacher
kmersh
MazdaMP
bajong
sandiego1k
thesilb
HnlJay
nachosdelux
wtigerFF
a1bengal
benolaa
LeslieandDiane
SPN Lifer +1
YRKInsider
texd
IAHtraveler
nzpilot
zebranz
If you received a lifetime Club membership from the UA MM program and would like to join a potential class action, please post your username here:
deek
honmani2
lax2jfk2lax (recd 2nd lifetime for hitting 2MM which I gifted)
seacarl
Related thread: Club member/one-time pass access changes Nov 1, 2019 (same day BP on UA or partner) Original thread -- focused on the basic access issue, most lifetime membership posts have been moved to this lifetime thread
Lifetime Member Edition: UC access changes Nov 1, 2019 (same day BP on UA or partner)
Dec 12, 2019, 4:55 pm
#901
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: TPA
Programs: United MP
Posts: 463
Dec 12, 2019, 6:13 pm
#903
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: 4éme
Posts: 12,041
Dec 13, 2019, 12:17 am
#904
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SFO, TPE, HNL
Programs: UA GS 4MM, RCC life member (paid), Marriott Lifetime Titanium, Hyatt Globalist, CLEAR
Posts: 1,822
I would like share an unrelated experience. A number of years ago I complained to a UA executive VP about their breaking promise on the MM program. I got to know the VP because I was among a few first generation 1Ks invited to Chicago for a social activity. The VP kindly replied in a email to tell me that was before his time at UA, and he has asked a senior Mileage Plus officer to research the old MM program. I have never heard from them again.
Dec 13, 2019, 12:37 am
#905
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HNL
Programs: UA GS4MM, MR LT Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,447
As the Silver Wings lawsuit plaintiffs found out - not being able to produce terms and conditions or a contract was the sole reason the lawsuit was won by UA. The onus is not on UA to produce contracts - the onus is on a plaintiff. A plaintiff has to prove their case.
You have to prove UA cannot change access rules. You will at a minimum show UA cannot change terms and conditions AND cannot change access rules AND lifetime members are a special class whose access cannot ever be restricted as opposed to any other member.
They will simply say - a member is a member - whether it is lifetime or someone who pays an annual fee. They will say - and by the way, you still have a membership and you are on a level playing field with every other member and never promised you'd get above and beyond access from a annual member.
Dec 13, 2019, 5:08 am
#906
Join Date: May 2006
Location: GSP
Programs: UA Gold; 1MM; Marriot Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 401
Although I have not been a UC member for many years, I have been reading this thread and it leaves such a bad taste for United. Like dealing with a Scrooge. So I wrote a polite email as well and sent it off today to both Oscar and the United Club. Just figured I would let them know how non club members are seeing this and how it makes us feel about United. Who wants to hang around a Scrooge when there are other airlines that are doing right by their customers. FWIW.
Dec 13, 2019, 5:14 am
#907
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,057
You can find a number of old T&C's on archive.org if you bought one back in the 2000's. I doubt there was anything beyond what was on the websites at the time. Looking at them, it appears that the same T&C's we're applied to all forms of membership (whether single year, multi-year, or lifetime) and they did not seem to have specific ones for lifetime memberships.
Dec 13, 2019, 11:19 am
#908
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Verdi, NV, SFO & Olympic (aka Squaw )Valley.
Programs: Ikon Pass Full + AS Gold + Marriott Titanium + Hilton Gold. Recovering UA Plat. LT lounge AA+DL+UA
Posts: 3,823
You can find a number of old T&C's on archive.org if you bought one back in the 2000's. I doubt there was anything beyond what was on the websites at the time. Looking at them, it appears that the same T&C's we're applied to all forms of membership (whether single year, multi-year, or lifetime) and they did not seem to have specific ones for lifetime memberships.
b) As a non-lawyer who has worked with lots of lawyers, just because something is (or is not) in a contract does not make the term enforceable. In many cases courts have ruled that what people thought was an agreement might supersede the actual contractual terms---but as with everything ymmv.
Dec 13, 2019, 12:25 pm
#909
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,116
They won't provide that to you.
As the Silver Wings lawsuit plaintiffs found out - not being able to produce terms and conditions or a contract was the sole reason the lawsuit was won by UA. The onus is not on UA to produce contracts - the onus is on a plaintiff. A plaintiff has to prove their case.
You have to prove UA cannot change access rules. You will at a minimum show UA cannot change terms and conditions AND cannot change access rules AND lifetime members are a special class whose access cannot ever be restricted as opposed to any other member.
They will simply say - a member is a member - whether it is lifetime or someone who pays an annual fee. They will say - and by the way, you still have a membership and you are on a level playing field with every other member and never promised you'd get above and beyond access from a annual member.
As the Silver Wings lawsuit plaintiffs found out - not being able to produce terms and conditions or a contract was the sole reason the lawsuit was won by UA. The onus is not on UA to produce contracts - the onus is on a plaintiff. A plaintiff has to prove their case.
You have to prove UA cannot change access rules. You will at a minimum show UA cannot change terms and conditions AND cannot change access rules AND lifetime members are a special class whose access cannot ever be restricted as opposed to any other member.
They will simply say - a member is a member - whether it is lifetime or someone who pays an annual fee. They will say - and by the way, you still have a membership and you are on a level playing field with every other member and never promised you'd get above and beyond access from a annual member.
Dec 13, 2019, 12:45 pm
#910
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: CLE
Programs: UA GS+LT UC, AA EXP+LT PLT, Fairmont LT PLT, Marriott PLT, Hilton DIA, Hyatt Glob, Avis CHM
Posts: 4,671
a) I also think it is important to find old issues of "Continental" magazine. If memory serves right it had a regular segment featuring the locations/benefits of Presidents Clubs. I have a copy of the last edition somewhere, but need to figure out in which box it is located. Does anyone else have a back copy?
Dec 13, 2019, 1:12 pm
#911
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Verdi, NV, SFO & Olympic (aka Squaw )Valley.
Programs: Ikon Pass Full + AS Gold + Marriott Titanium + Hilton Gold. Recovering UA Plat. LT lounge AA+DL+UA
Posts: 3,823
Thanks for sending me down an internet wormhole! So far I do not see a reference, but think that the data should be there somewhere.
As someone who joined FT thirteen years ago it is kinda odd looking for magazine articles published back when I was a member of this forum. How times change!
As someone who joined FT thirteen years ago it is kinda odd looking for magazine articles published back when I was a member of this forum. How times change!
Dec 13, 2019, 1:20 pm
#912
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HNL
Programs: UA GS4MM, MR LT Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,447
Dec 13, 2019, 1:24 pm
#913
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HNL
Programs: UA GS4MM, MR LT Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,447
Thanks for sending me down an internet wormhole! So far I do not see a reference, but think that the data should be there somewhere.
As someone who joined FT thirteen years ago it is kinda odd looking for magazine articles published back when I was a member of this forum. How times change!
As someone who joined FT thirteen years ago it is kinda odd looking for magazine articles published back when I was a member of this forum. How times change!
Dec 13, 2019, 3:50 pm
#914
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Verdi, NV, SFO & Olympic (aka Squaw )Valley.
Programs: Ikon Pass Full + AS Gold + Marriott Titanium + Hilton Gold. Recovering UA Plat. LT lounge AA+DL+UA
Posts: 3,823
See post #465 where I posted the lifetime terms and conditions in from the Continental website 1998. They reserved the right to change them then.
Kinda similar to asking whether a pre-nuptual agreement affects a life insurance policy. Oranges versus kittens.