Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > United Airlines | MileagePlus
Reload this Page >

Lifetime Member Edition: UC access changes Nov 1, 2019 (same day BP on UA or partner)

Lifetime Member Edition: UC access changes Nov 1, 2019 (same day BP on UA or partner)

    Hide Wikipost
Old Mar 2, 20, 9:19 am   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: texd
Wiki Link
So, is anything happening with this? Just curious (Oct 3, 2019)



If you paid cash for a lifetime Club membership and would like to join a potential class action due to this material change, please post your username here:
ctownflyer
hog Heaven
AAdmiral
nsx + 1
RichardInSF
Sykes
soartoday
lax2jfk2lax
libuser + 1
Xyzzy + 1
Buster CT1K
1K Student
Elitefreak
flyer austin + 1 (wiki-restricted member, added by IAH-OIL-TRASH)
Radonc1 + 1 (not a FT member but has LT membership)
Halo117
mikey
Mnmag
Vulcan
lateacher
kmersh
MazdaMP
bajong
sandiego1k
thesilb
HnlJay
nachosdelux
wtigerFF
a1bengal
benolaa
LeslieandDiane
SPN Lifer +1
YRKInsider
texd


If you received a lifetime Club membership from the UA MM program and would like to join a potential class action, please post your username here:
deek
honmani2
lax2jfk2lax (recd 2nd lifetime for hitting 2MM which I gifted)

Related thread: Club member/one-time pass access changes Nov 1, 2019 (same day BP on UA or partner) Original thread -- focused on the basic access issue, most lifetime membership posts have been moved to this lifetime thread



Print Wikipost

Old Dec 12, 19, 4:55 pm
  #901  
st3
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: TPA
Programs: National Exec, UA MP, Bonvoy
Posts: 246
Originally Posted by worldwidedreamer View Post
After all: if they don't honor this contract, which contracts will they honor in the future?
As JimInOhio also noted there has not been a contract with T&C produced so far that would illustrate a breach of contract.
st3 is offline  
Old Dec 12, 19, 5:10 pm
  #902  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Washington State
Posts: 1,369
I was unable to talk to anyone today. I'll try again tomorrow.

As for terms and conditions, I'm no lawyer but I do know that intent matters.
worldwidedreamer likes this.
Mikey is offline  
Old Dec 12, 19, 6:13 pm
  #903  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: JAX
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 5,326
Originally Posted by st3 View Post
As JimInOhio also noted there has not been a contract with T&C produced so far that would illustrate a breach of contract.
Has anybody contacted UA and requested a copy of the T&C that governed their membership?
worldwidedreamer likes this.
TomMM is offline  
Old Dec 13, 19, 12:17 am
  #904  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SFO
Programs: UA GS 4MM, RCC life member (paid), Marriott Lifetime Titanium, Hilton Silver. CLEAR
Posts: 1,173
Originally Posted by TomMM View Post
Has anybody contacted UA and requested a copy of the T&C that governed their membership?
I would like share an unrelated experience. A number of years ago I complained to a UA executive VP about their breaking promise on the MM program. I got to know the VP because I was among a few first generation 1Ks invited to Chicago for a social activity. The VP kindly replied in a email to tell me that was before his time at UA, and he has asked a senior Mileage Plus officer to research the old MM program. I have never heard from them again.
PanAmWT is offline  
Old Dec 13, 19, 12:37 am
  #905  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HNL
Programs: UA GS4MM, MR LT Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,688
Originally Posted by TomMM View Post
Has anybody contacted UA and requested a copy of the T&C that governed their membership?
They won't provide that to you.

As the Silver Wings lawsuit plaintiffs found out - not being able to produce terms and conditions or a contract was the sole reason the lawsuit was won by UA. The onus is not on UA to produce contracts - the onus is on a plaintiff. A plaintiff has to prove their case.

You have to prove UA cannot change access rules. You will at a minimum show UA cannot change terms and conditions AND cannot change access rules AND lifetime members are a special class whose access cannot ever be restricted as opposed to any other member.

They will simply say - a member is a member - whether it is lifetime or someone who pays an annual fee. They will say - and by the way, you still have a membership and you are on a level playing field with every other member and never promised you'd get above and beyond access from a annual member.
HNLbasedFlyer is offline  
Old Dec 13, 19, 5:08 am
  #906  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NC
Programs: UA Gold; 1MM; Marriot Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 372
Although I have not been a UC member for many years, I have been reading this thread and it leaves such a bad taste for United. Like dealing with a Scrooge. So I wrote a polite email as well and sent it off today to both Oscar and the United Club. Just figured I would let them know how non club members are seeing this and how it makes us feel about United. Who wants to hang around a Scrooge when there are other airlines that are doing right by their customers. FWIW.
Mikey, ctownflyer, uanj and 2 others like this.
lianluo is offline  
Old Dec 13, 19, 5:14 am
  #907  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,960
Originally Posted by TomMM View Post
Has anybody contacted UA and requested a copy of the T&C that governed their membership?
You can find a number of old T&C's on archive.org if you bought one back in the 2000's. I doubt there was anything beyond what was on the websites at the time. Looking at them, it appears that the same T&C's we're applied to all forms of membership (whether single year, multi-year, or lifetime) and they did not seem to have specific ones for lifetime memberships.
xliioper is offline  
Old Dec 13, 19, 11:19 am
  #908  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco & Squaw Valley
Programs: Many, but currently grounded.
Posts: 3,208
Originally Posted by xliioper View Post
You can find a number of old T&C's on archive.org if you bought one back in the 2000's. I doubt there was anything beyond what was on the websites at the time. Looking at them, it appears that the same T&C's we're applied to all forms of membership (whether single year, multi-year, or lifetime) and they did not seem to have specific ones for lifetime memberships.
a) I also think it is important to find old issues of "Continental" magazine. If memory serves right it had a regular segment featuring the locations/benefits of Presidents Clubs. I have a copy of the last edition somewhere, but need to figure out in which box it is located. Does anyone else have a back copy?

b) As a non-lawyer who has worked with lots of lawyers, just because something is (or is not) in a contract does not make the term enforceable. In many cases courts have ruled that what people thought was an agreement might supersede the actual contractual terms---but as with everything ymmv.
worldwidedreamer is offline  
Old Dec 13, 19, 12:25 pm
  #909  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 910
Originally Posted by HNLbasedFlyer View Post
They won't provide that to you.

As the Silver Wings lawsuit plaintiffs found out - not being able to produce terms and conditions or a contract was the sole reason the lawsuit was won by UA. The onus is not on UA to produce contracts - the onus is on a plaintiff. A plaintiff has to prove their case.

You have to prove UA cannot change access rules. You will at a minimum show UA cannot change terms and conditions AND cannot change access rules AND lifetime members are a special class whose access cannot ever be restricted as opposed to any other member.

They will simply say - a member is a member - whether it is lifetime or someone who pays an annual fee. They will say - and by the way, you still have a membership and you are on a level playing field with every other member and never promised you'd get above and beyond access from a annual member.
wouldn’t they potentially need to provide it as part of discovery during a trial?
jp12687 is offline  
Old Dec 13, 19, 12:45 pm
  #910  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: CLE
Programs: UA GS+LT UC, AA LT PLT, Fairmont LT PLT, SPG PLT, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Diamond, Avis CHM.
Posts: 3,894
Originally Posted by worldwidedreamer View Post
a) I also think it is important to find old issues of "Continental" magazine. If memory serves right it had a regular segment featuring the locations/benefits of Presidents Clubs. I have a copy of the last edition somewhere, but need to figure out in which box it is located. Does anyone else have a back copy?
Does the web archive have any of them saved?
ctownflyer is offline  
Old Dec 13, 19, 1:12 pm
  #911  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco & Squaw Valley
Programs: Many, but currently grounded.
Posts: 3,208
Originally Posted by ctownflyer View Post
Does the web archive have any of them saved?
Thanks for sending me down an internet wormhole! So far I do not see a reference, but think that the data should be there somewhere.

As someone who joined FT thirteen years ago it is kinda odd looking for magazine articles published back when I was a member of this forum. How times change!
worldwidedreamer is offline  
Old Dec 13, 19, 1:20 pm
  #912  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HNL
Programs: UA GS4MM, MR LT Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,688
Originally Posted by jp12687 View Post
wouldn’t they potentially need to provide it as part of discovery during a trial?
Perhaps, if they even have them.

I suspect they might - and probably favor UA.
dilanesp likes this.
HNLbasedFlyer is offline  
Old Dec 13, 19, 1:24 pm
  #913  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HNL
Programs: UA GS4MM, MR LT Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,688
Originally Posted by worldwidedreamer View Post
Thanks for sending me down an internet wormhole! So far I do not see a reference, but think that the data should be there somewhere.

As someone who joined FT thirteen years ago it is kinda odd looking for magazine articles published back when I was a member of this forum. How times change!
See post #465 where I posted the lifetime terms and conditions in from the Continental website 1998. They reserved the right to change them then.
HNLbasedFlyer is offline  
Old Dec 13, 19, 3:50 pm
  #914  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Francisco & Squaw Valley
Programs: Many, but currently grounded.
Posts: 3,208
Originally Posted by HNLbasedFlyer View Post
See post #465 where I posted the lifetime terms and conditions in from the Continental website 1998. They reserved the right to change them then.
Look like you cite the website TOS, not the contract for lifetime members. With all due respect, how on earth is that relevant here?

Kinda similar to asking whether a pre-nuptual agreement affects a life insurance policy. Oranges versus kittens.
worldwidedreamer is offline  
Old Dec 13, 19, 5:57 pm
  #915  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HNL
Programs: UA GS4MM, MR LT Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,688
Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
I was unable to talk to anyone today. I'll try again tomorrow.
So - how did it go?
HNLbasedFlyer is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: