Premium Plus (Premium Economy) seats and Experience
#46
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: London & Sonoma CA
Programs: UA 1K, MM *G for life, BAEC Gold
Posts: 10,225
And this is the problem with adding more Economy classes; it inherently breeds confusion.
Customers are going to be invariably disappointed unless it is crystal-clear what they are buying. We now have BE, E, E+ and P+. To an infrequent flyer, that is too many choices, and they are further confused by the benefits/limitations of each class.
My opinion is that this experiment will fail.
Customers are going to be invariably disappointed unless it is crystal-clear what they are buying. We now have BE, E, E+ and P+. To an infrequent flyer, that is too many choices, and they are further confused by the benefits/limitations of each class.
My opinion is that this experiment will fail.
And I very much doubt that the "experiment" will fail - in fact, it's not really an experiment at all since it's been in operation at many major airlines for many years and they've, by and large, been expanding the number of seats in the PE cabin. Furthermore, whilst originally, all the offerings were widely varied, nowadays there seems to be a consensus forming as to what is expected.
#47
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 5,000
I can't imagine UA spending more to improve them, so I don't see UA rising to the level of the Asian carriers' PE.
#48
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: PIT
Programs: OZ Diamond, UA Gold
Posts: 9,924
That "consensus" would likely not include UA's inferior soft product. As a frequent Polaris flyer, I find that the food and service are poor, and inferior to most of the Asian carriers.
I can't imagine UA spending more to improve them, so I don't see UA rising to the level of the Asian carriers' PE.
I can't imagine UA spending more to improve them, so I don't see UA rising to the level of the Asian carriers' PE.
#49
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: BOS
Programs: 1MM, UA 1k
Posts: 529
From what I’ve seen on UA, and flown on others (LH, BR, NH, SQ, JL) United has most of it right so far. LH 359’s have no divider and there’s no difference in the cabin experience - louder, feels more crowded. The seat looks nearly the same as the NH set up, which is most comfortable along w BR.
I’m consistently blown away by the negativity here. Especially by those who haven’t flown it, or haven’t been in PE. What a country!
I’m consistently blown away by the negativity here. Especially by those who haven’t flown it, or haven’t been in PE. What a country!
#50
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: SAN
Programs: 1K (since 2008), *G (since 1990), 1MM
Posts: 3,219
And this is the problem with adding more Economy classes; it inherently breeds confusion.
Customers are going to be invariably disappointed unless it is crystal-clear what they are buying. We now have BE, E, E+ and P+. To an infrequent flyer, that is too many choices, and they are further confused by the benefits/limitations of each class.
My opinion is that this experiment will fail.
Customers are going to be invariably disappointed unless it is crystal-clear what they are buying. We now have BE, E, E+ and P+. To an infrequent flyer, that is too many choices, and they are further confused by the benefits/limitations of each class.
My opinion is that this experiment will fail.
As it relates to BE the UA website is very clear about what you are buying. I do not buy through third party websites so cannot speak to that causing confusion.
I love NZ PE and the former TK PE. Obviously J (or Polaris in UA parlance) is preferable for long haul red eyes but a true PE seat for a long haul red eye suits me well for the price. I have previously canceled UA E+ when it was obvious the UG would not occur and flew NZ PE to Australia (last Christmas being the most recent example).
I forsee a great demand for P+ on long haul flights if priced correctly.
#51
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 5,000
From what I’ve seen on UA, and flown on others (LH, BR, NH, SQ, JL) United has most of it right so far. LH 359’s have no divider and there’s no difference in the cabin experience - louder, feels more crowded. The seat looks nearly the same as the NH set up, which is most comfortable along w BR.
I’m consistently blown away by the negativity here. Especially by those who haven’t flown it, or haven’t been in PE. What a country!
I’m consistently blown away by the negativity here. Especially by those who haven’t flown it, or haven’t been in PE. What a country!
If you're referring to me, I have flown the UA PE twice. I find the seat uncomfortable but equal to NH's. I like BR's overall product the best.
P+ is not worth over twice what E+ costs to me. YMMV.
I am really agnostic here. I only speak about that which I have experienced, and I am not a UA hater. I am biased towards UA because I only need 200K to get lifetime 1K, so I do give them the benefit of the doubt most of the time.
Last edited by zombietooth; Nov 14, 2018 at 8:37 am
#52
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,461
The value will really depend on the pricing. It needs to be closer to Y than to J to make sense. With BR, for example, it's only a nominal increase over Y (and upgradeable with miles if you buy the K fare).
If UA prices anywhere close to a W, it will be a very good value to those waitlisting GPUs who have to fly on a specific day.
I really don't see much of a negative here from the passenger's perspective. More options = better, though yes, there's always the possibility for confusion among those who do not take the time to educate themselves.
If UA prices anywhere close to a W, it will be a very good value to those waitlisting GPUs who have to fly on a specific day.
I really don't see much of a negative here from the passenger's perspective. More options = better, though yes, there's always the possibility for confusion among those who do not take the time to educate themselves.
#53
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 11,468
Today's announcements of the 6 TATL destination for the 787-10 mentions:
"Tickets will be available for purchase on Dec. 3, for travel beginning March 30"
Could be the launch date for selling PE fares ... ? ....
.
"Tickets will be available for purchase on Dec. 3, for travel beginning March 30"
Could be the launch date for selling PE fares ... ? ....
.
#54
Any additional data points on how the 77w seat assignments are handled? I saw one anecdote in the 77w thread that it was reserved to 1k and GS. I have 5 seats (myself and 4 no-status) right now in 20-22, but would much rather have the other 4 seats be in 39 if the seats are going to be shuffled and restricted to 1k/GS.
#55
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 6,338
I disagree. I think there was more confusion with E+ as many infrequent flyers are aware of PE and thought that was what they were buying with E+. Now there is true PE (or in UA parlance P+) on UA much easier for folks.
As it relates to BE the UA website is very clear about what you are buying. I do not buy through third party websites so cannot speak to that causing confusion.
I love NZ PE and the former TK PE. Obviously J (or Polaris in UA parlance) is preferable for long haul red eyes but a true PE seat for a long haul red eye suits me well for the price. I have previously canceled UA E+ when it was obvious the UG would not occur and flew NZ PE to Australia (last Christmas being the most recent example).
I forsee a great demand for P+ on long haul flights if priced correctly.
As it relates to BE the UA website is very clear about what you are buying. I do not buy through third party websites so cannot speak to that causing confusion.
I love NZ PE and the former TK PE. Obviously J (or Polaris in UA parlance) is preferable for long haul red eyes but a true PE seat for a long haul red eye suits me well for the price. I have previously canceled UA E+ when it was obvious the UG would not occur and flew NZ PE to Australia (last Christmas being the most recent example).
I forsee a great demand for P+ on long haul flights if priced correctly.
#56
Join Date: Feb 2015
Programs: united
Posts: 1,636
Pardon me for not knowing this, but does BA have 4 economy classes?
UA is already marketing E+ as, "more comfort and greater legroom". Customers have learned that and paid for E+ subscriptions or up charges. Now, they will be marketing an "even better economy plus" and I just don't think that its going to catch-on, especially since it's going to cost double.
I fly on my own dime and would likely never buy this product-but I know how uncomfortable the new seats are.
UA is already marketing E+ as, "more comfort and greater legroom". Customers have learned that and paid for E+ subscriptions or up charges. Now, they will be marketing an "even better economy plus" and I just don't think that its going to catch-on, especially since it's going to cost double.
I fly on my own dime and would likely never buy this product-but I know how uncomfortable the new seats are.
Premium Economy serves the market that used to fly international Y- the upper middle class. The reason for its existence is that there is now a cattle class offering cut-rate 10-across transoceanic service for the working and middle-middle classes who couldn't fly to Europe or Asia at all back in the old days.
These upper middle class flyers cannot afford to fly J at $4500+ roundtrip. But they want decent service.
#57
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 1,153
Nailed it. These days I'm fortunate enough to not even consider Economy for international flights. I'll happily pay around 2.5x the Economy price for PE. Mainly for legroom/space. Anything else such as better food sweetens the deal. Paying 3-8x over Economy for J is part of out reach, and part just not where I want my money going.
#58
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
These seats look pretty uncomfortable...also surprised that they're not in "shells" like Air France and some others.
https://www.digitaltrends.com/busine...d-your-dollar/
https://www.digitaltrends.com/busine...d-your-dollar/
And this is the problem with adding more Economy classes; it inherently breeds confusion.
Customers are going to be invariably disappointed unless it is crystal-clear what they are buying. We now have BE, E, E+ and P+. To an infrequent flyer, that is too many choices, and they are further confused by the benefits/limitations of each class.
My opinion is that this experiment will fail.
Customers are going to be invariably disappointed unless it is crystal-clear what they are buying. We now have BE, E, E+ and P+. To an infrequent flyer, that is too many choices, and they are further confused by the benefits/limitations of each class.
My opinion is that this experiment will fail.
There is a significant market for this.
Premium Economy serves the market that used to fly international Y- the upper middle class. The reason for its existence is that there is now a cattle class offering cut-rate 10-across transoceanic service for the working and middle-middle classes who couldn't fly to Europe or Asia at all back in the old days.
These upper middle class flyers cannot afford to fly J at $4500+ roundtrip. But they want decent service.
Premium Economy serves the market that used to fly international Y- the upper middle class. The reason for its existence is that there is now a cattle class offering cut-rate 10-across transoceanic service for the working and middle-middle classes who couldn't fly to Europe or Asia at all back in the old days.
These upper middle class flyers cannot afford to fly J at $4500+ roundtrip. But they want decent service.
#59
Join Date: Jan 2015
Programs: Alaska Gold 75K, AA EXP, United 1K
Posts: 472
Why should it? I have flown Premium Economy on BA since the early 2000's and it still exists.
For me, it's not too soon that UA puts a Premium Economy. I'm not in the lucky position that my employer pays Business Class for my international long hauls so I have to pay the difference between the Economy fare and the Business Class fare (or upgrade with instruments or take a TOD but those are never guaranteed to be available). I'd rather pay the difference between the Economy fare and the Premium Economy fare as from my experience flying on BA, I know that I arrive in good shape at my destination when I fly Premium Economy.
For me, it's not too soon that UA puts a Premium Economy. I'm not in the lucky position that my employer pays Business Class for my international long hauls so I have to pay the difference between the Economy fare and the Business Class fare (or upgrade with instruments or take a TOD but those are never guaranteed to be available). I'd rather pay the difference between the Economy fare and the Premium Economy fare as from my experience flying on BA, I know that I arrive in good shape at my destination when I fly Premium Economy.