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So how does UA win back the flying public? (Beyond the obvious)

So how does UA win back the flying public? (Beyond the obvious)

Old Apr 11, 2017, 10:41 am
  #91  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Originally Posted by sciflyer
Because I am IAH-based and will hit my million miles later this year, I'm semi-locked in to UA. But I believe sacking Munoz is absolutely appropriate. This incident is just the straw that broke the camel's back. UA customer service has deteriorated over the last few years with degradation of all aspects of the experience. From check-in to the United Club to in-flight to baggage handling, there are a huge number of small annoyances that United has introduced. Fixing these would cost very little money, if they cared to do it.

United made a mistake hiring a former freight rail executive as CEO. Munoz sees an airline as a means to transport cargo from point A to point B. His response to this incident does not suggest he is ever going to see the cargo as human passengers. The airline will continue shooting itself in the foot until it changes its customer service culture, and that has to start from the top.

Actually, I would suggest that Oscar has been a great hire for UA. I know former CO employees and CO fanboys still are struggling with it but he has been the reason why UA is recovering from the Smi$ek era.. and is still trying to undo some of the disastrous decisions made during that time.
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Old Apr 11, 2017, 10:43 am
  #92  
 
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Perhaps people have a stronger reaction to physical brutalization of a human than they do to causing financial damage, no matter how grave. I think there is some logic in that.
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Old Apr 11, 2017, 10:43 am
  #93  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
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Originally Posted by misdirected baggage
Isn't it peculiar that this video of one awful incident lights up the internet, yet nobody seems to pay attention to the Wells Fargo scandal that screwed thousands of customers???

Millions of phony accounts? Credit ratings destroyed? Boring stuff - who cares?

PAX dragged off an aircraft? OMG, wrath of god stuff...millions of social media posts (including FT).

What is it about air travel that just makes everyone go completely insane?
The difference is between a spouse taking half your money versus one beating you in front of your kids.
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Old Apr 11, 2017, 10:43 am
  #94  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Originally Posted by qukslvr619
I fail to see how one incident, with a decision by one employee (who probably didn't even work for UA), on one flight (that was operated by Republic), represents the entire workforce/operation/business practices of UA.
Did you not see the Munoz statement? He supports UA's employees.
Does he not represent the workforce/operation/business of UA?
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Old Apr 11, 2017, 10:44 am
  #95  
 
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Originally Posted by misdirected baggage
Isn't it peculiar that this video of one awful incident lights up the internet, yet nobody seems to pay attention to the Wells Fargo scandal that screwed thousands of customers???

Millions of phony accounts? Credit ratings destroyed? Boring stuff - who cares?

PAX dragged off an aircraft? OMG, wrath of god stuff...millions of social media posts (including FT).

What is it about air travel that just makes everyone go completely insane?
I think it's the victim-psychology coupled with a mob-mentality fostered by social-media. The feigned "omg what a horror" and the internet's ability to give anyone/everyone a soap-box to vent their self-perceived slights/injustices without having to know the truth or the detail.
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Old Apr 11, 2017, 10:47 am
  #96  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
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I believe it will be very difficult for United to win back customers, especially HVF's like myself. I was a very loyal United customer for over 10 years amassing 1.7M lifetime flight miles. Majority of that experience was prior to the merger with Continental. I tolerated the "devaluation" of 1K status and too many MX delays & cancellations to count for about 2 years after the merger. Let's not forget about the IT "integration" debacle either. Objectively, I will not fly United anymore for the following reasons:
1) They do not value my business, even as a HVF (my spend averages $50-90k per year consistently).
2) Most importantly, United is not reliable - I have low confidence that I'll get to my destination on-time (I primarily do transcon & international routes). There is a separate thread here on FT each year for "consolidated delayed/cancelled flights" for United. I don't believe you'll see those threads on Delta or AA (if they are there, they certainly don't have the volume of posts United does for sure). It is shocking the frequency and length of MX delays and cancellations are, especially on wide-body long haul aircraft. I had one debacle shortly before I decided to pull the plug completely on United where I was stuck for over 48 hours in Shannon Ireland due to a MX issue. Root cause for the length of that delay was money pure and simple - it was cheaper for United to piss off 250+ people than it was to fly in a replacement aircraft (which they ended up needing to do in the end).

I made the switch to AA about 3 years ago and frankly didn't expect much difference in overall service, but I am MUCH more satisfied with AA. Maybe it has been just luck, but I've experienced minimal MX delays, ground and flight crew seem to be happier / definitely treat passengers better, and AA management does value HVF's. I get calls on a regular basis to ensure I'm happy with the airline. When I left United, my spend dropped off the map and frankly I expected some sort of follow up to ask why. That NEVER happened.
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Old Apr 11, 2017, 10:50 am
  #97  
 
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Originally Posted by NH_Clark
I think it's the victim-psychology coupled with a mob-mentality fostered by social-media. The feigned "omg what a horror" and the internet's ability to give anyone/everyone a soap-box to vent their self-perceived slights/injustices without having to know the truth or the detail.
This.
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Old Apr 11, 2017, 10:50 am
  #98  
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Originally Posted by misdirected baggage
Isn't it peculiar that this video of one awful incident lights up the internet, yet nobody seems to pay attention to the Wells Fargo scandal that screwed thousands of customers???...
It's the fact that video exists. It's the drama of the moment, focused on a single victim. It's the tangible nature of the attack. There's no video of evil Wells Fargo execs slamming customers into phony accounts -- and no pictures of WF customers reacting. No screams. No blood. No horrified onlookers going, "Oh my God!"

As a company that operates in public, UA ought to know anything out of the ordinary is liable to be captured on smartphone video. Just more evidence the airline still thinks it's operating in an analog world where it controls its own brand and narrative.

The Flight 3411 tape could end up being UA's Zapruder film. A pivotal moment in company history captured forever.

This story also "lights up the Internet" because it crystallizes the vague, long-running United brand narrative: that it's a brutal, indifferent, unscrupulous airline that strategizes against its customers and treats them as, in the FAs' own phrase, "self-loading cargo." That storyline's been out there for years. The assault video sort of confirms it and makes it real.
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Old Apr 11, 2017, 10:50 am
  #99  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
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only solution

the only logical solution is mandatory body cameras for gate agents
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Old Apr 11, 2017, 10:51 am
  #100  
 
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well....

Originally Posted by croints
The difference is between a spouse taking half your money versus one beating you in front of your kids.
Not sure about the analogy.

Not to diminish what happened at ORD, the fallout from Wells was horrendous. Many people could not get credit, homes, cars - even jobs were affected. Yet, it wasn't dramatic enough to capture on 3 minutes of video.

Psychology studies find that people overreact to dramatic events. We use those results when trading stocks. While the ensuing social media storm about a dramatic event at UA may be justified, it's dwarfed by the carnage left by a slow-moving scandal that derailed a lot of lives - one that everyone seems to yawn about.

Just my 2 cents...
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Old Apr 11, 2017, 10:58 am
  #101  
 
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Originally Posted by bo1953
LOL, it is obvious to me that you do not understand the differences, Mrs. Parks was breaking a long held belief that a certain group of citizens could NOT sit in certain areas of public transport, while UA had a goal for its' employees to achieve and it was NOT based on ethnic grounds.

If you want to play that card, then UA's computer system needs to be singled out for picking ethnic names for IVDB, in which case we need to know the identities of the others who voluntarily deplaned.

Have a safe trip.....
.
The Rosa Parks comparison is completely valid.

Both situations involved an individual who violated the law in refusing to give up their seat on a transit vehicle. Both were "escorted" off by police at the request of the transiting agency. It wasn't just a belief that Ms. Parks had to give up her seat, it was the law at the time.
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Old Apr 11, 2017, 11:06 am
  #102  
 
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Originally Posted by kavok
The Rosa Parks comparison is completely valid.

Both situations involved an individual who violated the law in refusing to give up their seat on a transit vehicle. Both were "escorted" off by police at the request of the transiting agency. It wasn't just a belief that Ms. Parks had to give up her seat, it was the law at the time.
Okay, if YOU want to make that comparison, so be it. I stick to my thesis and history.

The law at this time is not targeted to one group of people, it is targeted to any passenger whose seat is needed or deemed required to transport.

This law is not based, or so I believe, on a specific set/group of individuals and can be applied to any passenger, paying or not.

Safe travels.
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Old Apr 11, 2017, 11:09 am
  #103  
 
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There are really two issues here that need to be addressed:

1) Errors and incompetence made by UA that could have been avoided if the gate agents knew about the deadheading crew before boarding the rest of the plane. IDB at the gate is unpleasant, but better than when you are already seated. At the gate there is also a lot less transparency to the how and why then when you are on board. Better to be IDBd because "we sold too many seats" rather than IDBd because "some of our employees need the seat we sold you".

2) Although UA called the police/rent-a-cops/TSA/whatever they were, the 'security' are responsible for the totally unreasonable use of force, the bleeding, the screaming, etc. UA is complicit in that, but at the same time, these so-called security people must be held accountable.

If I was running UA, I would apologize profusely for the communication, system, etc. problems that led to the first issue and led to a situation where there was no other choice than to avoid pulling pax off. But I would then be sure to throw these so-called police under the bus for escalating this beyond what is reasonable and hold them personally accountable for the assault.
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Old Apr 11, 2017, 11:09 am
  #104  
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 514
Originally Posted by entropy
I don't think there will be any real long-term fallout here.

Certainly the notion that Oscar should resign is ridiculous.

There's no doubt the situation wasn't handled properly. Under $misek, United got excessively stingy when it came to VDB comp, and IDB's rose. Everyone has their price, if they offered $2k, I'm sure they could have gotten volunteers. And sometimes it takes some creativity (E.g. fly to Indianapolis, which is pretty close).

Since this was apparently an afternoon flight, there's certainly the opportunity to figure out reasonable options.
Even Lexington might have worked. Maybe someone is halfway between Louisville and Lexington and would take the comp and a Lexington flight.
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Old Apr 11, 2017, 11:12 am
  #105  
Formerly known as caveruner17
 
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Originally Posted by misdirected baggage
UA has lost between $0.5 and 1.0 billion in market value today (depending upon when you look at the tape).
So what? Stocks go up and down all the time as does their market cap. Go back 3 weeks and UAL was at $65.28 after being up to almost $76 the prior month.

A few percentage point drop in a stock price doesn't mean much of anything. We're basically back at the same level as last Wednesday.
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