Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > United Airlines | MileagePlus
Reload this Page >

Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}

Community
Wiki Posts
Search
Old Apr 10, 2017, 8:42 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
WELCOME, THREAD GUIDELINES and SUMMARY PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING

If you are new to us, welcome to FlyerTalk! Who we are: FlyerTalk features discussions and chat boards that cover the most up-to-date traveler information; an interactive community dedicated to the topic of travel (not politics or arguments about politics or religion, etc. – those discussion are best in the OMNI forum)

The incident discussed in this thread has touched a nerve for many, and many posters are passionate about their opinions and concerns. However we should still have a civil and respectful discussion of this topic. This is because FlyerTalk is meant to be a friendly, helpful, and collegial community. (Rule 12.)

1. The normal FlyerTalk Rules apply. (Including not discussing moderation actions in thread). Please be particularly attentive to "discussing the idea and not the poster" when you have a disagreement. Civility and mutual respect are still expected and are what we owe each other as a community.

2. You are expected to respect the FlyerTalk community's diversity, and therefore refrain from posting inflammatory comments about race, religion, culture, politics, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc. Do not cite, copy, or report on such.

3. While you can disagree with an opinion, the holder of that opinion has the same right to their opinion as you have to yours. We request all to respect that and disagree or discuss their point of views without getting overly personal and without attacking the other poster(s). This is expected as a requirement in FT Rule 12.

4. Overly exaggerative posts as well as posts with information that has been posted several times previously may be summarily deleted.

5. In addition, those who repeatedly fail to comply with FlyerTalk Rules, may be subjected to FlyerTalk disciplinary actions and, e.g., have membership privileges suspended, or masked from this forum.

If you have questions about the Rules or concerns about what another has posted in this or other threads in this forum, please do not post about that. Rather, notify the moderators by using the alert symbol within each post or email or send a private message to us moderators.

Let’s have this discussion in a way that, when we look back on it, we can be proud of how we handled ourselves as a community.

The United Moderator team:
J.Edward
l'etoile
Ocn Vw 1K
Pat89339
WineCountryUA

N.B. PLEASE do not alter the contents of this moderator note
Statement from United Airlines Regarding Resolution with Dr. David Dao - released 27 April 2017
CHICAGO, April 27, 2017 /PRNewswire/ -- We are pleased to report that United and Dr. Dao have reached an amicable resolution of the unfortunate incident that occurred aboard flight 3411. We look forward to implementing the improvements we have announced, which will put our customers at the center of everything we do.
DOT findings related to the UA3411 9 April 2017 IDB incident 12 May 2017

What facts do we know?
  • UA3411, operated by Republic Airways, ORD-SDF on Sunday, April 9, 2017. UA3411 was the second to last flight to SDF for United. AA3509 and UA4771 were the two remaining departures for the day. Also, AA and DL had connecting options providing for same-day arrival in SDF.
  • After the flight was fully boarded, United determined four seats were needed to accommodate crew to SDF for a flight on Monday.
  • United solicited volunteers for VDB. (BUT stopped at $800 in UA$s, not cash). Chose not to go to the levels such as 1350 that airlines have been known to go even in case of weather impacted disruption)
  • After receiving no volunteers for $800 vouchers, a passenger volunteered for $1,600 and was "laughed at" and refused, United determined four passengers to be removed from the flight.
  • One passenger refused and Chicago Aviation Security Officers were called to forcibly remove the passenger.
  • The passenger hit the armrest in the aisle and received a concussion, a broken nose, a bloodied lip, and the loss of two teeth.
  • After being removed from the plane, the passenger re-boarded saying "I need to go home" repeatedly, before being removed again.
  • United spokesman Jonathan Guerin said the flight was sold out — but not oversold. Instead, United and regional affiliate Republic Airlines – the unit that operated Flight 3411 – decided they had to remove four passengers from the flight to accommodate crewmembers who were needed in Louisville the next day for a “downline connection.”

United Express Flight 3411 Review and Action Report - released 27 April 2017

Videos

Internal Communication by Oscar Munoz
Oscar Munoz sent an internal communication to UA employees (sources: View From The Wing, Chicago Tribune):
Dear Team,

Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.

As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.

I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.

Oscar

Summary of Flight 3411
  • On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United's gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.
  • We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process (including offering up to $1,000 in compensation) and when we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding, he raised his voice and refused to comply with crew member instructions.
  • He was approached a few more times after that in order to gain his compliance to come off the aircraft, and each time he refused and became more and more disruptive and belligerent.
  • Our agents were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight. He repeatedly declined to leave.
  • Chicago Aviation Security Officers were unable to gain his cooperation and physically removed him from the flight as he continued to resist - running back onto the aircraft in defiance of both our crew and security officials.
Email sent to all employees at 2:08PM on Tuesday, April 11.
Dear Team,

The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.

I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.

It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.

I promise you we will do better.

Sincerely,

Oscar
Statement to customers - 27 April 2017
Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.

Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.

For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?

It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.

Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.

That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.

We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.

We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.

While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.

I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.

Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."

Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.

We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.

With Great Gratitude,

Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
Aftermath
Poll: Your Opinion of United Airlines Reference Material

UA's Customer Commitment says:
Occasionally we may not be able to provide you with a seat on a specific flight, even if you hold a ticket, have checked in, are present to board on time, and comply with other requirements. This is called an oversale, and occurs when restrictions apply to operating a particular flight safely (such as aircraft weight limits); when we have to substitute a smaller aircraft in place of a larger aircraft that was originally scheduled; or if more customers have checked in and are prepared to board than we have available seats.

If your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.

We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
CoC is here: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...-carriage.aspx
Print Wikipost

Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Apr 11, 2017, 11:31 pm
  #3811  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sydney Australia
Programs: No programs & No Points!!!
Posts: 14,222
https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/commen...ited_airlines/
Annalisa12 is offline  
Old Apr 11, 2017, 11:34 pm
  #3812  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Brunei
Programs: Enrich Sapphire. Kris Flyer Silver.Le Club Accorhotels,Starwood.
Posts: 2,201
Originally Posted by RumPatrol
It's possible the GA did call and was told "these four must be on this flight" or it is possible the deadhead crew was being assertive that they needed to be on the flight. At that point, having already been ambushed by four unexpected deadhead crew and an already boarded full flight, there really wasn't an option left for the GA, all he/she could do is make it work as directed.

The GA is just the messenger, once the man objected, the tension for everyone probably just boiled over and you end up with this nightmare. Couldn't pay me enough to deliver that message.

I really don't think there was an option B here. I can't imagine flight ops would force four crew aboard this aircraft at the cost of 4 IDBs and a delay if it could have been avoided. I'm guessing this was the only possible option to get a qualified deadhead crew to Louisville in time to serve their mandatory rest period prior to the next morning's scheduled departure. Whether these crew were needed due to weather/mechanical delays or because someone screwed up the schedule we may never know. Ultimately, I don't think why the crew had to be on the plane is relevant, just that they did have to be and IDBs were the unfortunate result. It all went downhill from there.

Agreed. Well stated. I would ask Flight Ops and the GA if the jump seat was available and why it was not considered as a solution to the problem of them being short of 1 seat for one of the crew members who desperately needed to get on this flight.
wolf72 is offline  
Old Apr 11, 2017, 11:35 pm
  #3813  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,413
Originally Posted by ijgordon
Just because that's what the manager told people doesn't mean that's what actually happened. (And obviously that could go for a lot of this event).

Try explaining fare class to a planeload of people.
Please read my post that you quoted. The very first word is IF.
MSPeconomist is offline  
Old Apr 11, 2017, 11:41 pm
  #3814  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Nawthun Virginia
Programs: Air: UA (Gold), AA, WN, DL; Hotel: Hilton (Diamond), plus all the rest
Posts: 135
Originally Posted by dweick
Most states have, either by statute or by case law, removed the unlawful arrest defense for resisting arrest.

In addition, your quote from Plummer v State is a fabrication.

https://books.google.com/books?id=GH...page&q&f=false
But they never made an arrest. They never said he was under arrest, and they never informed him of his rights. They simply gave him an ultimatum, and then he called their bluff, they used physical force.

There is no way I'm prepared to believe those guys understand the terms of United's CofC to know they had the legal right to do what they were doing, and they were taking what the GA was telling them on faith.

Not a good idea.
Rdenney is offline  
Old Apr 11, 2017, 11:47 pm
  #3815  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Nawthun Virginia
Programs: Air: UA (Gold), AA, WN, DL; Hotel: Hilton (Diamond), plus all the rest
Posts: 135
Originally Posted by GadgetFreak
I saw no indication that he was drugged up. Certainly not clearly.
Especially after listening to the audio of his conversation. He was a lot calmer and more subdued than I would have been, but then I have one of those voices.
Rdenney is offline  
Old Apr 11, 2017, 11:49 pm
  #3816  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 350
Originally Posted by Live4Upgrade
I still can't get past the part where the Dr didn't comply when 3 cops came on the plane. When he physically refused, what did he expect the cops to do - let him stay in the plane? If he had been smart, he would have argued his case then complied when it the cops were called.

UA has egg on their face but I really hate it when some stupid customer results in companies getting their reputation smeared because they were having to deal with someone acting like a fool. Had he walked off like 99.999% of the population, the issue could have been resolved in without escalation. The Dr is the one whose action caused escalation. The cop, not UA, is the one who went overboard on how they dealt with the removal.
I disagree. If he was dumb, he would have done what you suggested. But he is clearly smart. The actions he chose are going to make him a very rich man.
deskover54 is offline  
Old Apr 11, 2017, 11:50 pm
  #3817  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Brunei
Programs: Enrich Sapphire. Kris Flyer Silver.Le Club Accorhotels,Starwood.
Posts: 2,201
Originally Posted by Rdenney
Especially after listening to the audio of his conversation. He was a lot calmer and more subdued than I would have been, but then I have one of those voices.
Any chance of a link to hear his conversation?
wolf72 is offline  
Old Apr 11, 2017, 11:53 pm
  #3818  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Independent! But mostly BKK, BCN, SFO, PDX, SEA...
Programs: Lawl COVID
Posts: 1,060
Oh, snap!! Emirates throwing massive shade!! rofl!!

FiveMileFinal is offline  
Old Apr 11, 2017, 11:55 pm
  #3819  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: SDF
Programs: -=- UA: GS + 3.9 Million Miler; Hilton: Diamond; Marriott: Gold; Hertz: President's Circle
Posts: 676
Originally Posted by deskover54
I disagree. If he was dumb, he would have done what you suggested. But he is clearly smart. The actions he chose are going to make him a very rich man.
and that's what is wrong with America. People who act like idiots and milk it all the way to the bank.
Live4Upgrade is offline  
Old Apr 11, 2017, 11:55 pm
  #3820  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
Programs: DL GM
Posts: 515
Originally Posted by wolf72
Agreed. Well stated. I would ask Flight Ops and the GA if the jump seat was available and why it was not considered as a solution to the problem of them being short of 1 seat for one of the crew members who desperately needed to get on this flight.
To utilize the jump seat (if one was even available), the person in the jump seat either has to also have a seat in the passenger cabin OR be type qualified to operate the aircraft (or be an ATC/FAA/NTSB/DoD inspector/observer/evaluator).

Since obviously there was no seat in the cabin, that's out, and it is unclear if the pilots involved were qualified to operate this aircraft. There are a few other exceptions to the jump seat rules, but I believe they would all require approval by the FAA.
RumPatrol is offline  
Old Apr 11, 2017, 11:56 pm
  #3821  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: SFO
Programs: Free agent, UA 1K, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 353
Originally Posted by FiveMileFinal
Oh, snap!! Emirates throwing massive shade!! rofl!!

Fly the friendly skies with a real airline
I think the craziest thing is that Emirates video is #3 trending right now on all of Youtube worldwide. The amount of publicity this event is generating is absolutely insane. The brand damage to United has clearly hit 8 digits already, let's see how high it'll go...
bioyuki is offline  
Old Apr 11, 2017, 11:57 pm
  #3822  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
Originally Posted by wolf72
Ryan Air have a less than stellar reputation themselves in the UK and Europe. Using them as an example of how to do things is maybe not a very good idea.

I know people who have had horrible experiences with them and compare them to the worst american airliners around.

A good example I would use would be how Air Asia operate. Granted they are a budget airline but there are NO problems with overbooking.

You can purchase tickets online up to 3 hours before a flight or at the sales counter at the airport up to 60 minutes before a flight and seats are confirmed.

If they can get away without problems, why is UA having these sorts of problems in the first place?
I think he was quoting the fact that Ryanair is having the field day in question, not saying Ryanair is a good operation.
GrayAnderson is offline  
Old Apr 12, 2017, 12:04 am
  #3823  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 350
Originally Posted by Live4Upgrade
and that's what is wrong with America. People who act like idiots and milk it all the way to the bank.
I'm not sure most people here would agree with you. It seems 90% of folks are on the side of the doctor
deskover54 is offline  
Old Apr 12, 2017, 12:04 am
  #3824  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Brunei
Programs: Enrich Sapphire. Kris Flyer Silver.Le Club Accorhotels,Starwood.
Posts: 2,201
Originally Posted by GrayAnderson
I think he was quoting the fact that Ryanair is having the field day in question, not saying Ryanair is a good operation.
You make a valid point. British humor at it's best.
Attached Images  
wolf72 is offline  
Old Apr 12, 2017, 12:06 am
  #3825  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,203
Facts:

Munoz lied when he said that flight was overbooked. It was NOT.
All the rules related IDB applies to overbooking. That was not the case here.
Munoz also lied when he said 1000 USD was offered. Amount went up only to 800. (far short of 1350 threshold)

Gate Agent is not part of flight crew. All the rules/laws about following instructions of flight crew dont apply in this case.

Random selection is not mention in CoC. Dont believe this was done randomly. (United is not known to use random process for IDB)

There was no IDB here. This was forced disembarkation.


Opinion:

6 figure comp is a very low number. That may be amount coming from Chicago Aviation Security. United will certainly pay in 7 figures.
desi is offline  


Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.