Apr 10, 2017, 8:42 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
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CHICAGO, April 27, 2017 /PRNewswire/ -- We are pleased to report that United and Dr. Dao have reached an amicable resolution of the unfortunate incident that occurred aboard flight 3411. We look forward to implementing the improvements we have announced, which will put our customers at the center of everything we do.
What facts do we know?
- UA3411, operated by Republic Airways, ORD-SDF on Sunday, April 9, 2017. UA3411 was the second to last flight to SDF for United. AA3509 and UA4771 were the two remaining departures for the day. Also, AA and DL had connecting options providing for same-day arrival in SDF.
- After the flight was fully boarded, United determined four seats were needed to accommodate crew to SDF for a flight on Monday.
- United solicited volunteers for VDB. (BUT stopped at $800 in UA$s, not cash). Chose not to go to the levels such as 1350 that airlines have been known to go even in case of weather impacted disruption)
- After receiving no volunteers for $800 vouchers, a passenger volunteered for $1,600 and was "laughed at" and refused, United determined four passengers to be removed from the flight.
- One passenger refused and Chicago Aviation Security Officers were called to forcibly remove the passenger.
- The passenger hit the armrest in the aisle and received a concussion, a broken nose, a bloodied lip, and the loss of two teeth.
- After being removed from the plane, the passenger re-boarded saying "I need to go home" repeatedly, before being removed again.
- United spokesman Jonathan Guerin said the flight was sold out — but not oversold. Instead, United and regional affiliate Republic Airlines – the unit that operated Flight 3411 – decided they had to remove four passengers from the flight to accommodate crewmembers who were needed in Louisville the next day for a “downline connection.”
United Express Flight 3411 Review and Action Report - released 27 April 2017
Videos
- Passenger one row behind and on the aisle footage BEFORE man was dragged off https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=655_1492004707
- Videos of man being removed https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4b7_1491983214 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nAZEk6nsNE
- Video of man re-entering plane https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNEQDWpYbZA (link dead)
Internal Communication by Oscar Munoz
Oscar Munoz sent an internal communication to UA employees (sources: View From The Wing, Chicago Tribune):
Dear Team,
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Summary of Flight 3411
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I've included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Summary of Flight 3411
- On Sunday, April 9, after United Express Flight 3411 was fully boarded, United's gate agents were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.
- We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process (including offering up to $1,000 in compensation) and when we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding, he raised his voice and refused to comply with crew member instructions.
- He was approached a few more times after that in order to gain his compliance to come off the aircraft, and each time he refused and became more and more disruptive and belligerent.
- Our agents were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight. He repeatedly declined to leave.
- Chicago Aviation Security Officers were unable to gain his cooperation and physically removed him from the flight as he continued to resist - running back onto the aircraft in defiance of both our crew and security officials.
Dear Team,
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
I promise you we will do better.
Sincerely,
Oscar
The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way.
I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right.
It’s never too late to do the right thing. I have committed to our customers and our employees that we are going to fix what’s broken so this never happens again. This will include a thorough review of crew movement, our policies for incentivizing volunteers in these situations, how we handle oversold situations and an examination of how we partner with airport authorities and local law enforcement. We’ll communicate the results of our review by April 30th.
I promise you we will do better.
Sincerely,
Oscar
Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. If our chief good as a company is only getting you to and from your destination, that would show a lack of moral imagination on our part. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
- Chicago Aviation Department said on the Monday afternoon after the incident that the officer who had dragged the passenger off the plane had been placed on leave pending an investigation. Spokesperson Karen Pride said in an email that "The incident on United flight 3411 was not in accordance with our standard operating procedure and the actions of the aviation security officer are obviously not condoned by the Department."
- 4/12/17: Two more Chicago Aviation officers involved are suspended
- Muñoz does ABC interview, announcing United will no longer use law enforcement to remove passengers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90jSUe_vdhM
- United announces policy change that crews traveling on their aircraft must be booked at least 60 minutes prior to departure.
- United releases multiple changes in overbooking / denied boarding policies "We are making changes to ensure that we always put customers first" (http://newsroom.united.com/2017-04-2...mer-Experience) released 27 April 2017
- Statement from United Airlines Regarding Resolution with Dr. David Dao - released 27 April 2017
- Response to Senate Commerce Committee questions - 1 May 2017
- United Airlines PR Boss to Step Down
- James Long, one of several officers involved in removing David Dao from the April 9, 2017, flight to make room for airline employees, filed suit on Tuesday against United, Chicago’s Department of Aviation and its commissioner, Ginger Evans. The lawsuit, filed in the circuit court of Cook County, Illinois, alleges he was not properly trained on how to use force.
Poll: Your Opinion of United Airlines
Poll link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/KP68GYG
Results link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
Reference MaterialResults link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/results...Q6B2B/instant/
UA's Customer Commitment says:
Occasionally we may not be able to provide you with a seat on a specific flight, even if you hold a ticket, have checked in, are present to board on time, and comply with other requirements. This is called an oversale, and occurs when restrictions apply to operating a particular flight safely (such as aircraft weight limits); when we have to substitute a smaller aircraft in place of a larger aircraft that was originally scheduled; or if more customers have checked in and are prepared to board than we have available seats.
If your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.
We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
CoC is here: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...-carriage.aspxIf your flight is in an oversale situation, you will not be denied a seat until we first ask for volunteers willing to give up their confirmed seats. If there are not enough volunteers, we will deny boarding to passengers in accordance with our written policy on boarding priority. If you are involuntarily denied boarding and have complied with our check-in and other applicable rules, we will give you a written statement that describes your rights and explains how we determine boarding priority for an oversold flight. You will generally be entitled to compensation and transportation on an alternate flight.
We make complete rules for the payment of compensation, as well as our policy about boarding priorities, available at airports we serve. We will follow these rules to ensure you are treated fairly. Please be aware that you may be denied boarding without compensation if you do not check in on time or do not meet certain other requirements, or if we offer you alternative transportation that is planned to arrive at your destination or first stopover no later than one hour after the planned arrival time of your original flight.
Man pulled off of overbooked flight UA3411 (ORD-SDF) 9 Apr 2017 {Settlement reached}
Apr 11, 2017, 10:46 pm
#3781
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 33
And that in itself is a problem. His dirty laundry got aired because of this incident, which I think is irrelevant anyway.
Apr 11, 2017, 10:48 pm
#3782
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Brunei
Programs: Enrich Sapphire. Kris Flyer Silver.Le Club Accorhotels,Starwood.
Posts: 2,201
I'm super curious to know this as well, especially since so many of the UA defenders have cited 14 CFR and 49 USC rules, which only pertain to the PIC and FAs via delegation, not ground crew or gate agents. For all the people who believe pilots are God-like, where was the PIC in this situation?
My hypothesis is that the PIC and crew saw what a cluster this was and kept out of it. Unfortunately the PIC has some amount of responsibility here given it's on the plane, even if it's not a closed door situation.
My hypothesis is that the PIC and crew saw what a cluster this was and kept out of it. Unfortunately the PIC has some amount of responsibility here given it's on the plane, even if it's not a closed door situation.
You wonder if some common sense had prevailed and 1 member of the standby crew was given a jump seat instead and problem would have been solved.
Sometimes, it just needs 1 person to be rational and to problem solve without letting it get out of control.
This got out of control when the agent selected the chinese gentleman exclusively and got the airport police to remove him only and not anyone else.
Many mainland chinese believe this is down to racism.
Who know's why the agent opted to pick on him exclusively.
If there was an arab or indian looking passenger on board, who know's what might have happened to that individual.
That is where we are now days in how passengers are treated by airline staff and why people just do not trust anything airliners say anymore i guess.
Apr 11, 2017, 10:49 pm
#3783
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 33
Doubt it. How can you control what the cops do?
It's their job to assess the situation and act appropriately NOT be your personal goons.
I can't order them NOT to beat down as much as I can order them to beat you down. They do whatever they want to do and any reasonable jury would understand that.
It's their job to assess the situation and act appropriately NOT be your personal goons.
I can't order them NOT to beat down as much as I can order them to beat you down. They do whatever they want to do and any reasonable jury would understand that.
Apr 11, 2017, 10:50 pm
#3784
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
Programs: DL GM
Posts: 515
I wonder what the GA was thinking at the time and how it came across.
Eg) If he/she was thinking:
"We have messed up and I'm looking for a volunteer for a mutually beneficial compromise"
then I expect the outcome to be different vs thinking:
"These passengers are delaying my flight because they won't accept. I'm going to have to force some of them so that they can let me do my job".
Eg) If he/she was thinking:
"We have messed up and I'm looking for a volunteer for a mutually beneficial compromise"
then I expect the outcome to be different vs thinking:
"These passengers are delaying my flight because they won't accept. I'm going to have to force some of them so that they can let me do my job".
It may have started as "we messed up but I'm looking for volunteers to compromise with" but as tense as that situation probably was, I bet it turned into the latter really fast.
Apr 11, 2017, 10:52 pm
#3786
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
A good lawyer will be able to direct his case at UA as the responsible party in the law suit and I am pretty sure the judge or magistrate handling the case will see the rational of it once all arguments are put forward.
You can argue it was the airport security or police who caused the injuries but as you probably should realize, the party responsible for this mess to begin with were UA who acted with malice and were responsible primarily for the welfare and care of all it's passengers at all times.
More so once they had boarded and were seated.
I feel sorry for any law firm representing UA in this when the case does go to trial.
But, knowing how these things are, this will be settled behind closed doors and a premium paid to end the PR nightmare UA are going through.
Hint: look at their stock prices today
You can argue it was the airport security or police who caused the injuries but as you probably should realize, the party responsible for this mess to begin with were UA who acted with malice and were responsible primarily for the welfare and care of all it's passengers at all times.
More so once they had boarded and were seated.
I feel sorry for any law firm representing UA in this when the case does go to trial.
But, knowing how these things are, this will be settled behind closed doors and a premium paid to end the PR nightmare UA are going through.
Hint: look at their stock prices today
I'm not a lawyer, but if I'm the doctor's lawyers? I name all three as defendants. Republic is in bankruptcy, so I'd try to settle them out for a song...probably effectively in exchange for some leverage against the others. Testimony about how their hands were forced comes to mind.
At that point, it's a question of who I can lever into whom, and my best guess is this: CPD carried out the assault, arguably had the discretion to refuse to get involved, their officer(s) may have made false statements (about being attacked), etc. United probably started the whole thing and their policies are to blame, but CPD did the "laying of hands" here. My guess is that I settle with United for a comfortable sum and everyone ends up glaring at CPD over excessive force with United basically saying "Look, we asked for him to be removed, not roughed up" and Chicago having a long history of excessive force-type issues.
My guess? The doctor's going to get more out of Chicago than he will out of United. As long as he gets a good settlement out of United, he'll have no reason to rush to settle.
Apr 11, 2017, 10:52 pm
#3787
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atherton, CA
Programs: UA 1K, AA EXP; Owner, Green Bay Packers
Posts: 21,690
Apr 11, 2017, 10:53 pm
#3788
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: LAS/LAX/SNA/DTW
Programs: DL PM, UA AG, WN A, MR Life PL, HH DI, Avis P+, 7*
Posts: 116
I was a CO Platinum forever, and this merger idea was just idiotic. It's like wanting to catch Hep C. But...Jeff Smisek found a way to get fired, and I was liking Munoz a lot (as well as Brett Hart, who did a great job in Munoz' absence, and you know what? it's probably ok if Munoz can't survive this.) until this. I mean, I started flying them again, and I'm flying them tomorrow.
I mean seriously, ... was Munoz thinking? And you get this type of reaction from your CEO, it certainly can't inspire confidence from the board.
Finally...how good a look can this be when you change your tune after the stock's market cap drops by $1.4B?
Last edited by Nibaruian; Apr 11, 2017 at 10:58 pm
Apr 11, 2017, 10:53 pm
#3789
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 110
The cops had several choices:
-ask the guy to get off nicely
-delay the flight until the guy got off
-ask their supervisor for permission to use force
-do what they did (assuming they didn't ask permission to use force)
None of these optinos were direct instructions from United.
If they just delayed the flight eg we aren't going to take off until you get off the plane... I'm sure the other 73 passengers + crew would start booing the guy until he was shamed enough to leave (or they would just cancel the flight) and this would be a non story with David Dao as the bad guy instead of United.
All United did was hey we want this guy off the plane and the cops are supposed to be trained to do what they do.
Really this should be more about police training than United taking the heat in my opinion and I am no United fan (see my other complaint about their luggage fees).
After 9/11 refusing any cop orders at an airport seems 100% way to get arrested and usually beat down.
I do agree that airlines in general are hated companies so see how they side with the guy but looking at the facts I can't see how United is at fault for what the cops did to the guy.
-ask the guy to get off nicely
-delay the flight until the guy got off
-ask their supervisor for permission to use force
-do what they did (assuming they didn't ask permission to use force)
None of these optinos were direct instructions from United.
If they just delayed the flight eg we aren't going to take off until you get off the plane... I'm sure the other 73 passengers + crew would start booing the guy until he was shamed enough to leave (or they would just cancel the flight) and this would be a non story with David Dao as the bad guy instead of United.
All United did was hey we want this guy off the plane and the cops are supposed to be trained to do what they do.
Really this should be more about police training than United taking the heat in my opinion and I am no United fan (see my other complaint about their luggage fees).
After 9/11 refusing any cop orders at an airport seems 100% way to get arrested and usually beat down.
I do agree that airlines in general are hated companies so see how they side with the guy but looking at the facts I can't see how United is at fault for what the cops did to the guy.
A good lawyer will be able to direct his case at UA as the responsible party in the law suit and I am pretty sure the judge or magistrate handling the case will see the rational of it once all arguments are put forward.
You can argue it was the airport security or police who caused the injuries but as you probably should realize, the party responsible for this mess to begin with were UA who acted with malice and were responsible primarily for the welfare and care of all it's passengers at all times.
More so once they had boarded and were seated.
I feel sorry for any law firm representing UA in this when the case does go to trial.
But, knowing how these things are, this will be settled behind closed doors and a premium paid to end the PR nightmare UA are going through.
Hint: look at their stock prices today
You can argue it was the airport security or police who caused the injuries but as you probably should realize, the party responsible for this mess to begin with were UA who acted with malice and were responsible primarily for the welfare and care of all it's passengers at all times.
More so once they had boarded and were seated.
I feel sorry for any law firm representing UA in this when the case does go to trial.
But, knowing how these things are, this will be settled behind closed doors and a premium paid to end the PR nightmare UA are going through.
Hint: look at their stock prices today
Apr 11, 2017, 10:54 pm
#3790
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
Apr 11, 2017, 10:55 pm
#3791
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,866
If I was a defender of United here on FT, I would not even refer to this irrelevant matter. I may have seen comments that the cops dug up dirt on this man, so it backfires on United and the cops even if they did not bring up the disclosure.
Apr 11, 2017, 10:56 pm
#3792
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Colorado
Programs: UA Gold (.85 MM), HH Diamond, SPG Platinum (LT Gold), Hertz PC, National EE
Posts: 5,660
Here are some questions... Are any of the UAX gates at ORD staffed by non UA personnel...SkyWest etc? The crew of 4 would be indicative of an express crew, so are they scheduled differently than mainline? I believe they are. If so to either questions, does that change anything in this situation? Surely a crew positioning trip is a given, but was some of this sloppy typical UAX crew scheduling? I've seen more than once less than stellar UAX crew schedule mishaps. If the GA was a UAX contractor, was training a factor? Just speculating here. 
If I buy a car from Honda with defective airbags from some well known manufacturer I don't directly chase the airbag manufacturer as I had no choice in what Honda used. My beef is with Honda, not subcontractors. My lawyer may suggest we sue both, which is fine, but Honda chose the subcontractor not me.
Apr 11, 2017, 10:57 pm
#3793
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Brunei
Programs: Enrich Sapphire. Kris Flyer Silver.Le Club Accorhotels,Starwood.
Posts: 2,201
Apr 11, 2017, 11:00 pm
#3794
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Brunei
Programs: Enrich Sapphire. Kris Flyer Silver.Le Club Accorhotels,Starwood.
Posts: 2,201
A good lawyer will try to net both UA and Chicago and will play them off against one another (and possibly against Republic as well) in settlement negotiations.
I'm not a lawyer, but if I'm the doctor's lawyers? I name all three as defendants. Republic is in bankruptcy, so I'd try to settle them out for a song...probably effectively in exchange for some leverage against the others. Testimony about how their hands were forced comes to mind.
At that point, it's a question of who I can lever into whom, and my best guess is this: CPD carried out the assault, arguably had the discretion to refuse to get involved, their officer(s) may have made false statements (about being attacked), etc. United probably started the whole thing and their policies are to blame, but CPD did the "laying of hands" here. My guess is that I settle with United for a comfortable sum and everyone ends up glaring at CPD over excessive force with United basically saying "Look, we asked for him to be removed, not roughed up" and Chicago having a long history of excessive force-type issues.
My guess? The doctor's going to get more out of Chicago than he will out of United. As long as he gets a good settlement out of United, he'll have no reason to rush to settle.
I'm not a lawyer, but if I'm the doctor's lawyers? I name all three as defendants. Republic is in bankruptcy, so I'd try to settle them out for a song...probably effectively in exchange for some leverage against the others. Testimony about how their hands were forced comes to mind.
At that point, it's a question of who I can lever into whom, and my best guess is this: CPD carried out the assault, arguably had the discretion to refuse to get involved, their officer(s) may have made false statements (about being attacked), etc. United probably started the whole thing and their policies are to blame, but CPD did the "laying of hands" here. My guess is that I settle with United for a comfortable sum and everyone ends up glaring at CPD over excessive force with United basically saying "Look, we asked for him to be removed, not roughed up" and Chicago having a long history of excessive force-type issues.
My guess? The doctor's going to get more out of Chicago than he will out of United. As long as he gets a good settlement out of United, he'll have no reason to rush to settle.
Absolutely spot on. But I suspect UA will be paying the majority of the settlement as they are in a lose-lose situation.
Apr 11, 2017, 11:00 pm
#3795
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: SEATTLE, WA USA
Programs: UAL, AA, AS, CX
Posts: 1,973
This was extremely disturbing and we should all #boycottunited and here’s why.
1.This was an avoidable situation with proactive advanced planning by United. They had to know in advance that they would need to get 4 NonRevs to Louisville.
2.Why didn’t they find space on earlier United flights to re-accommodate fare paying & Nonrev passengers?
3.Why didn’t they send their Nonrevs on deadhead flights using OTHER carriers to protect their fare paying passengers?
4.Why did they twist the situation blaming the customer and then calling police? Utterly shameful and disgusting that crew would stoop this low. What's next we don't like how you looked at me so I'm calling the police to kick you off?
5.Better yet: Where are United mission & values in all of this – in the toilet I tell you!
6.Where’s the servant leader in CEO, Oscar Munoz who was first judge in chief about the situation writing all their employees disparaging the passenger & situation first without compassion first for the fare paying traveler who was battered and bruised?
7.How do the Nonrevs reconcile this within themselves taking this guys seat once he was forced off? I couldn’t do it. Then again I might be more humane than most.
8. Why couldnt they fly in jump seats?
The CEO along with the crew of the airline should make a public apology to all the passengers in person and in front of them with all the media cameras rolling for all the world to see. Yea a bit Japanese culture style of repentance in public along with ample public shaming. Then they should all be FIRED!
1.This was an avoidable situation with proactive advanced planning by United. They had to know in advance that they would need to get 4 NonRevs to Louisville.
2.Why didn’t they find space on earlier United flights to re-accommodate fare paying & Nonrev passengers?
3.Why didn’t they send their Nonrevs on deadhead flights using OTHER carriers to protect their fare paying passengers?
4.Why did they twist the situation blaming the customer and then calling police? Utterly shameful and disgusting that crew would stoop this low. What's next we don't like how you looked at me so I'm calling the police to kick you off?
5.Better yet: Where are United mission & values in all of this – in the toilet I tell you!
6.Where’s the servant leader in CEO, Oscar Munoz who was first judge in chief about the situation writing all their employees disparaging the passenger & situation first without compassion first for the fare paying traveler who was battered and bruised?
7.How do the Nonrevs reconcile this within themselves taking this guys seat once he was forced off? I couldn’t do it. Then again I might be more humane than most.
8. Why couldnt they fly in jump seats?
The CEO along with the crew of the airline should make a public apology to all the passengers in person and in front of them with all the media cameras rolling for all the world to see. Yea a bit Japanese culture style of repentance in public along with ample public shaming. Then they should all be FIRED!