zrs70

The next step will inevitably be the introduction of a true premium economy following the full elimination of international F. In ten years, premium economy will evolve to lie flat, and business will evolve to private suites.

Then the cycle will start all over.

HkCaGu

When I was in primary and secondary schools in 1980s Hong Kong, many of my textbooks had names prefixed with "New", as in "New (name of publisher) (optional branding adjective) (subject)". I always wonder how the next generation of textbooks would be named. I didn't hang around to see that.

Now I guess the next generation of premium economy would be something like "supremium economy"?

In other news, a friend covering the 862/27th event at Gate 60 told me there was no cake like 869/25th at SFO. Can anyone post some photos?

cricketer

I've flown the seat 3 times now, and my perspective is that while it is an improvement for UA overall, it's probably not a game-changer.

For my own part, when paying for J, I'd always fly this over SQ, NH, OZ, TG, etc. assuming I could get an odd-row seat and possibly even otherwise. I'd also fly this over most other carriers because of my approaching 2MM status.

However, that's not a substantial change on my part - the only scenario I would not have made the same choice prior to the Polaris seat would have been a pmCO non-bulkhead seat. I'd book away from that every time.

For people who prefer SQ, CX, BR, or others, and have no pre-existing loyalties, I don't see this seat making them book away. That's the general sentiment of a handful of people that I've spoken with as well.

thus - not really a game-changer, IMO, even though I'm personally happy with it.

spin88

I think this is the reality, and likely why United is so worried about this seat. It is nice compared to what United currently has, but it is mehh compared to the better current seats flown by others. There is simply nothing that makes you go "wow" unless you are a United loyalist, in which case it is a big step up. This will keep more people who are locked into United from leaving, but attracting new traffic? No so much.

Meanwhile the competition (delta) is going with nicer seats, and United will be stuck with these seats which are tight for a long while, as their competitive posture gets lapped.

This is the reaction that should put the fear of god into United. You fly a new CX and a new UA plane, in paid J, and which is clearly better....

artvandalay

As more and more UA FC seats disappear and those pax who normally flew FC now must "endure" Polaris, it would be interesting to read their comments here.

spin88

And it is not just the seat being smaller/tighter While the food was the same (+soup), the wines and personal service was better.

I note that even those who like the seat, still are dogging on the food/drink. And I would also add that not to have expresso on a plane at this point is downright noncompetitive. One of the few things CO did right was have expresso, it was an unwise cost cutting by Jeff.

ethernetWeasel

SFO-TPE got bears on the 25th as well.

glx

I'm a regular GPU-applying J->F upgrader on the 3-cabins. I liked this seat just as much as the GF seat and appreciated that there is actually more privacy than the GF seat. It didn't feel any more cramped than the GF seat (and IIRC has basically the same dimensions).

JetAway

It's probably going to take bears on every Polaris flight to lure non-UA loyalists to try the brand.

zrs70

What does that have to do with Smisek???

I flew the first Polaris EWR-SFO. I true step ahead.

I want to have my cake and eat it too. I like the privacy. I miss the open feel of a wide body.

I remember my first flight in a 777 in the 1990's. I was in C, and the cabin felt like a huge living room. There was a sense of roominess and ample space that I really liked. No, the seats weren't lie flat. We didn't have AVOD. It was, by today's standards, old school.

The 777-300 cabin is very private, and almost too private. The aisle is very, very narrow. You have to squeeze into the seating space. From the center section of row nine, there was no seeing out the window at all because of the privacy. No sense of when landing would be.

minnyfly

I believe the age of revolutionary J seats is long gone. The top tier of J seats starting coming out a decade ago and have only seen minor tweaks since then. They've hit a mathematical wall. There's only so many seats that can be placed in a certain area. To make a dramatically better seat today means losing density and transitioning to something like the modern-day F suites. Don't see that ever happening with a U.S. carrier.

United was late the party, no question. There's only two things I see that could potentially be revolutionary. The first is the lunges, and the second is a seat that can be adapted to all cabin widths and maintain the same design/expectations. The rest are evolutionary upgrades.

There's nothing about DL's seats that make you go wow either, and they have no foreseeable plans to update the so-so, generation-behind products that dominate their fleet in the 767 and A330. I've flown their best product - the 747 - and it has significant drawbacks. It's not even that comfortable. Plus, DL went with cheap, off the shelf details. They couldn't even go with a comfy cloth seat cover, and instead went with cheap leather. There's multiple things I know I will like better about the Polaris seat and experience before I even have a chance to fly it. UA doesn't need to beat the top foreign carriers. They need to beat AA and DL first, and by all accounts this seat and service has that chance.

So you've flown Polaris in flight and flown a product that doesn't exist yet?

findark

I still think they're missing a chance for a good marketing gimmick to rotate animals seasonally and/or by route. They would make a lovely take-home present for families, and you could play a collect-em-all game.

oopl

The multiple year research and decision to go with the seat was under Smisek's "leadership."

Also, see:

zrs70

Ah! I thought you were saying the Smisek design the GF seat.

spin88

Given how tight these seats are, some lunges will be necessary after a 14 hour flight.

The Zodiac Cirrus III (which is what an earlier poster flew on the brand new CX 359 after getting off the UA 77W) is a better seat, both IMHO, and in the posters opinion as well. The Vantage XL/XL+ (which Delta is putting into its A359s and retrofiting into its 777s) is also a bigger, better seat.

So United is embarking on a "new" seat design that will be around for 7-10 years, and its not as good as what OALs are doing moving forward.


I would agree that there is nothing about DL's seats that make me go WOW. At this point they are much better fleetwide than United. But not WOW. I don't think they are better than this Polaris seat is, and Polaris is better than what DL has on the 767 (which is tight). However, while these Polaris seats are rolling out on UA, Delta will be rolling out Vantage XL+, which is a nicer seat, and it is going on all of Delta's long distance lift.

July 2017 Delta will get its first A359 (#115) and since it will have the VantageXL+ we can see. That said its a seat I am familiar with.