UA958 Jun 12 '15: MX @ ORD, Diverts to YYR for 2nd MX, Pax Housed @ Military Barracks
Jun 15, 2015, 11:03 am
#166
Join Date: Jun 2013
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So instead of ruining a few hundred people's day, they should have doubled that and ruined another couple hundred people's days? It would have played out better in the media and with PR, but delying these passengers (best case scenerio) 1/2 a day and then adding another couple of hundred people with a full day delay? Seems to me that really isn't as good as it sounds when you suggested it, when you look at the actual logistics of disruptions that it doesn't solve (it reduces some) while creating more.
Jun 15, 2015, 11:03 am
#167
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Thanks for the update and hearing about the reason for the emergency landing. News reports about excessive vibration, but this makes sense as to the severity or rationale of flying.
Agree re: the corporate response to the matter. It sucks that United made the trek even more painful by going back to EWR and making you guys reclear Customs. Plane maintenance seems to be a problem but not surprising with increasing fleet utilization (and no spare planes, esp as summer travel gets into high gear).
Happy to hear the people of Goose Bay were accommodating (while this is not a normal thing, they have had to do this in the past, like on 9/11). I know some Cdns have been hurt by comments made, like the guy on Twitter posting snow in Goose Bay. Its been a little colder this year, but not that cold!
Agree re: the corporate response to the matter. It sucks that United made the trek even more painful by going back to EWR and making you guys reclear Customs. Plane maintenance seems to be a problem but not surprising with increasing fleet utilization (and no spare planes, esp as summer travel gets into high gear).
Happy to hear the people of Goose Bay were accommodating (while this is not a normal thing, they have had to do this in the past, like on 9/11). I know some Cdns have been hurt by comments made, like the guy on Twitter posting snow in Goose Bay. Its been a little colder this year, but not that cold!
passenger from UA958 here.
first, i want to start by thanking the captain of this flight. we only found out later how severe the issue was. there was a deadheading FA in first that said other FAs were in tears thinking the plane was going down. what really matters in this story is that we had a super professional captain that landed a broken plane in Goose Bay. apparently, a rudder had jammed in the back. i was in J and it just felt like turbulence. but, in the back, apparently the vibration was severe. by the the time the co-pilot got back from checking it out, warnings were going off in the cockpit.
it really puts things into perspective. the final 20 minutes of that flight where the most silent of any plane i'd been on. we all had the map up just watching the path, altitude, and air speed. FAs ran through yelling "stow everything that's loose" - just made is nervous about a really rough landing. that said, we did come in a little hard (didn't dump fuel) and burned up the brakes stopping with a full load, but nobody was injured. THAT's the part that the media is missing in this story.
apart from the awesome crew, everything about united's handling of this flight was horrible. the folks in Goose Bay were awesome; that should be mentioned as well. but UAL was silent the entire ordeal.
the first bus off the plane took F and J to customs then the barracks (no luggage, of course). all of us were placed in barracks 306, which was one of them without heat. the thermostat in my room said 14 C, which is about 57 F. i didn't have a blanket at all, only 2 sheets (one for under me, one over me). it was a very unpleasant night. on top of that, they didn't coordinate the rooms very well. about an hour after settling in, i was awaken by a 21 year old girl yelling at her mom in the adjoining room. you can imagine sharing the bathroom in the morning was awkward.
the base did what they could and really did bend over backwards. there were buses swinging around to barracks every 15 mins to and from the mess hall. meals were passable; also not worth complaining about since it's nearly impossible for a town that small to plan on handling a full 767.
my real beef is with United on how they handled things. we had ZERO knowledge from them. our only updates came when people at the barracks would post new pieces of paper with an updated departure time.
we were told the night prior that a replacement 767 was coming in the morning that would continue straight to LHR. that plane never made it, as it was grounded for maintenance.
the second plane came around 5pm local time. we boarded and were told we're going back to EWR and NOT onto LHR. that plane then was delayed for further maintenance (crazy pattern, right?). funny thing is that ANOTHER UA plane had an emergency landing while we waited. it was medical though, but still ironic.
got to EWR around midnight local time. had to clear customs and claim our bags, despite using the same aircraft to go back to LHR.
re-check line was 2 hours. it was a mess. eventually agents gave up and said "just use your same seats as last night".
in the meantime, UA canceled flight 940 so that we could take the spot (now UA2063). some of those PAX rebooked onto our flight, which created havoc on board with duplicate seats. disaster.
they've offered a refund of that leg + 25k miles or $500 ecert.
crew = awesome; pilot is a hero
Goose Bay folks = really accommodating and so nice
canadian beer = passed the time a lot quicker
United = worst experience ever
first, i want to start by thanking the captain of this flight. we only found out later how severe the issue was. there was a deadheading FA in first that said other FAs were in tears thinking the plane was going down. what really matters in this story is that we had a super professional captain that landed a broken plane in Goose Bay. apparently, a rudder had jammed in the back. i was in J and it just felt like turbulence. but, in the back, apparently the vibration was severe. by the the time the co-pilot got back from checking it out, warnings were going off in the cockpit.
it really puts things into perspective. the final 20 minutes of that flight where the most silent of any plane i'd been on. we all had the map up just watching the path, altitude, and air speed. FAs ran through yelling "stow everything that's loose" - just made is nervous about a really rough landing. that said, we did come in a little hard (didn't dump fuel) and burned up the brakes stopping with a full load, but nobody was injured. THAT's the part that the media is missing in this story.
apart from the awesome crew, everything about united's handling of this flight was horrible. the folks in Goose Bay were awesome; that should be mentioned as well. but UAL was silent the entire ordeal.
the first bus off the plane took F and J to customs then the barracks (no luggage, of course). all of us were placed in barracks 306, which was one of them without heat. the thermostat in my room said 14 C, which is about 57 F. i didn't have a blanket at all, only 2 sheets (one for under me, one over me). it was a very unpleasant night. on top of that, they didn't coordinate the rooms very well. about an hour after settling in, i was awaken by a 21 year old girl yelling at her mom in the adjoining room. you can imagine sharing the bathroom in the morning was awkward.
the base did what they could and really did bend over backwards. there were buses swinging around to barracks every 15 mins to and from the mess hall. meals were passable; also not worth complaining about since it's nearly impossible for a town that small to plan on handling a full 767.
my real beef is with United on how they handled things. we had ZERO knowledge from them. our only updates came when people at the barracks would post new pieces of paper with an updated departure time.
we were told the night prior that a replacement 767 was coming in the morning that would continue straight to LHR. that plane never made it, as it was grounded for maintenance.
the second plane came around 5pm local time. we boarded and were told we're going back to EWR and NOT onto LHR. that plane then was delayed for further maintenance (crazy pattern, right?). funny thing is that ANOTHER UA plane had an emergency landing while we waited. it was medical though, but still ironic.
got to EWR around midnight local time. had to clear customs and claim our bags, despite using the same aircraft to go back to LHR.
re-check line was 2 hours. it was a mess. eventually agents gave up and said "just use your same seats as last night".
in the meantime, UA canceled flight 940 so that we could take the spot (now UA2063). some of those PAX rebooked onto our flight, which created havoc on board with duplicate seats. disaster.
they've offered a refund of that leg + 25k miles or $500 ecert.
crew = awesome; pilot is a hero
Goose Bay folks = really accommodating and so nice
canadian beer = passed the time a lot quicker
United = worst experience ever
Jun 15, 2015, 11:17 am
#168
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: United Global Services, Amtrak Select Executive
Posts: 4,098
Looks like you bought out that store's stock of Molson. Good job!
Jun 15, 2015, 11:29 am
#169
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Connecticut
Programs: UA GS, UA MM, Starwood Platinum
Posts: 60
"HOWEVER, it is incidents like this which scare the beejeezus out of me. I don't understand how United handled this situation. These passengers were basically prisoners. Had I been a passenger on this flight, I would have likely cancelled my business in London and tried to take a car/train/flight back into the U.S. But it doesn't seem like that was an option for anyone. This incident is screaming for United's leadership to step up and say something.
Having just gone through this on UA976 on May 7/8/9 2015 where we diverted to Ankara,Turkey for a medical, what I can tell you is the following:
1) Both of these diversions occurred on a Friday evening US time.
2) It was painfully obvious from my experience that due to it being Friday evening, people at UAL were just not around. Sounds like it happened again.
3) Im quite sure that the Maintenance Desk at UAL knew all about what was going on, but referencing #2 again, there was no link between Maintenance and the customer facing folks and as such, no communication in any form to those of us that were in Ankara.
4) Multiple calls to GS at UAL during the diversion were met with Huh? ..our systems say your plane is in Dubai. Thats a problem. Seems like this exact situation occurred again.
In summary, yes..UAL needs an AOG passenger desk to communicate with customers in locations where UAL personnel are not stationed. I've got two phones, a computer and a tablet, its not that hard to send out communications via their existing systems.
All the above being said, compensation was generous. 25000 miles or $500 bucks. I took the 25K.
Last edited by J.Edward; Jun 15, 2015 at 11:42 am Reason: Update VBB Code
Jun 15, 2015, 11:32 am
#170
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Hate to be Monday morning whatever, but there are many things that could've been done that I can think of, and others already mentioned:
- Designate one crew to be stationed at the barracks to serve as communication.
- Or better yet, fly in a Sir Branson to "direct" stuff.
- Or why not even use SMS to recruit a top-tier pax as communication focal point? We'll pay you $100 cert for every $50 or portion thereof you spend roaming.
- Or maybe just SMS everybody you can find on the reservation database. They tell you about gate change at SFO/ORD three times ten minutes! Why aren't everybody seeing what they've been rebooked to (e.g. UA 20XX) and see the progressive delay messages?
- Once they arrived in EWR, why not just distribute BPs and go? When HKG-ORD becomes HKG-SFO-ORD, nobody leaves the plane anyway, just a crew change, followed by CBP in ORD.
My Oct 2013 NRT typhoon experience:
- GUM tropical depression gust scared them to cancel late night B772 NRT-GUM. All 36 of us taken to hotel 80 km away ahead of an approaching typhoon. Flight resched to noon next day.
- Howling wind stopped at 7, bus (same guy/bus as prev night) boarded at 8, driver lacked permission from "company" to leave hotel, delayed until 10. Once on the road, closures, congestions, moved 12 km in 3 hours.
- Someone roamed Premier US number on the bus to seek help. "Driver does not seem to know an alternate." "Sorry but you're not on our plane. We have no control." Bladder control crisis ensued.
- HUACA, still no help, at least it was revealed the B772 left without us, but there'd be three flights that night.
- Bus finally arrived at 1440, flights not until 2100+. Everyone was really tired, but the lack of communication away from NRT was a significant contribution.
- Designate one crew to be stationed at the barracks to serve as communication.
- Or better yet, fly in a Sir Branson to "direct" stuff.
- Or why not even use SMS to recruit a top-tier pax as communication focal point? We'll pay you $100 cert for every $50 or portion thereof you spend roaming.
- Or maybe just SMS everybody you can find on the reservation database. They tell you about gate change at SFO/ORD three times ten minutes! Why aren't everybody seeing what they've been rebooked to (e.g. UA 20XX) and see the progressive delay messages?
- Once they arrived in EWR, why not just distribute BPs and go? When HKG-ORD becomes HKG-SFO-ORD, nobody leaves the plane anyway, just a crew change, followed by CBP in ORD.
My Oct 2013 NRT typhoon experience:
- GUM tropical depression gust scared them to cancel late night B772 NRT-GUM. All 36 of us taken to hotel 80 km away ahead of an approaching typhoon. Flight resched to noon next day.
- Howling wind stopped at 7, bus (same guy/bus as prev night) boarded at 8, driver lacked permission from "company" to leave hotel, delayed until 10. Once on the road, closures, congestions, moved 12 km in 3 hours.
- Someone roamed Premier US number on the bus to seek help. "Driver does not seem to know an alternate." "Sorry but you're not on our plane. We have no control." Bladder control crisis ensued.
- HUACA, still no help, at least it was revealed the B772 left without us, but there'd be three flights that night.
- Bus finally arrived at 1440, flights not until 2100+. Everyone was really tired, but the lack of communication away from NRT was a significant contribution.
Last edited by HkCaGu; Jun 15, 2015 at 11:46 am Reason: my experience
Jun 15, 2015, 11:48 am
#171
Join Date: Oct 2010
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The oil and gas companies have global incident management teams. The teams are day to day employees with passports in hand ready to depart on a moments notice to an incident. It would appear United has no such team. It would appear United depends on the local resources to manage incidents. The crew of the plane did indeed need to rest. The type A personality is not of value in incidents. Contracted incident management teams are another option.
And I must admit the passengers were ill prepared also. I travel with a small blanket, change of clothes, food, drink, flashlight, phone medicines and toiletries.
And I must admit the passengers were ill prepared also. I travel with a small blanket, change of clothes, food, drink, flashlight, phone medicines and toiletries.
Jun 15, 2015, 11:55 am
#172
Join Date: Nov 2007
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The oil and gas companies have global incident management teams. The teams are day to day employees with passports in hand ready to depart on a moments notice to an incident. It would appear United has no such team. It would appear United depends on the local resources to manage incidents. The crew of the plane did indeed need to rest. The type A personality is not of value in incidents. Contracted incident management teams are another option.
And I must admit the passengers were ill prepared also. I travel with a small blanket, change of clothes, food, drink, flashlight, phone medicines and toiletries.
And I must admit the passengers were ill prepared also. I travel with a small blanket, change of clothes, food, drink, flashlight, phone medicines and toiletries.
Jun 15, 2015, 11:57 am
#173
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: What I write is my opinion alone..don't read into it anything not written.
Posts: 9,686
The oil and gas companies have global incident management teams. The teams are day to day employees with passports in hand ready to depart on a moments notice to an incident. It would appear United has no such team. It would appear United depends on the local resources to manage incidents. The crew of the plane did indeed need to rest. The type A personality is not of value in incidents. Contracted incident management teams are another option.
And I must admit the passengers were ill prepared also. I travel with a small blanket, change of clothes, food, drink, flashlight, phone medicines and toiletries.
And I must admit the passengers were ill prepared also. I travel with a small blanket, change of clothes, food, drink, flashlight, phone medicines and toiletries.
Jun 15, 2015, 12:00 pm
#174
Join Date: Feb 2014
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i think it would be "absolutely horrible" to be in a Syrian or Malaysian refugee camp right now, or to be in such distress in Central America such that 8-10 year old children are crossing the Rio Grande by themselves or with a coyote, or to be fleeing north in the Mediterranean on an overloaded boat.
or if the plane crashed. or if it did a crash landing on a glacier in the middle of nowhere and half the plane suffered causalities.
this situation certainly sucks and UA certainly inconvenienced pax and probably did a poor recovery and i can understand for the anxious how this can be stressful but this is not "absolutely horrible".
i'm certain the people in the barracks can wander around outside, get air, use their cellphones, not worry that around the corner someone may shoot them because of what god they worship etc etc etc.
maybe flyertalk is not for me. yeah they're missing their wedding or work and UA certainly owes these people something but come on......fwp.
or if the plane crashed. or if it did a crash landing on a glacier in the middle of nowhere and half the plane suffered causalities.
this situation certainly sucks and UA certainly inconvenienced pax and probably did a poor recovery and i can understand for the anxious how this can be stressful but this is not "absolutely horrible".
i'm certain the people in the barracks can wander around outside, get air, use their cellphones, not worry that around the corner someone may shoot them because of what god they worship etc etc etc.
maybe flyertalk is not for me. yeah they're missing their wedding or work and UA certainly owes these people something but come on......fwp.
If the standard is that you can't complain if anything is less than the worst possible situation in the world, then let's apply that to the amount of compensation UA will be paying to passengers, as well.
Jun 15, 2015, 12:02 pm
#175
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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The more passengers are informed about what is going on, the less likely they are to tweet/facebook their disdain for how they are being treated, which in turn minimizes the worldwide media frenzy.
Jun 15, 2015, 12:03 pm
#176
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i agree, communication sucked.
but, that grocery store closed at 6pm (i know because we went to buy snacks and beer). the mess hall was fine. food wasn't exactly gourmet, but kept us fed.
the biggest gap was between the noon lunch and the 1am boarding from EWR to LHR (where they had sandwiches and cookies waiting)
but, that grocery store closed at 6pm (i know because we went to buy snacks and beer). the mess hall was fine. food wasn't exactly gourmet, but kept us fed.
the biggest gap was between the noon lunch and the 1am boarding from EWR to LHR (where they had sandwiches and cookies waiting)
But if I were in your situation and someone delegated by (or paid by) UA had shown up with a truck full of pizza and sandwiches and beer, it would go a long way toward assuaging my feelings toward the airline. It would almost be a party, and a good bonding experience. How hard is it to think of something like this?
Jun 15, 2015, 12:10 pm
#177
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Join Date: Mar 2015
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Posts: 498
Not sure I'd jump this far. It seems very possible that the pilots were informed that passengers would be fine in the barracks. They probably didn't learn about the heating system until later. To some extent, the crew is at the mercy of the corporation here as well, and were also hearing that a rescue plane would arrive in the morning. Not enough evidence to jump on the crew IMO.
No, the crew was responsible for the passengers in Goose Bay, but abdicated that responsibility and ran to the safety of the hotel, while their passengers were left in the dark. No excuse.
Jun 15, 2015, 12:10 pm
#178
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: United Global Services, Amtrak Select Executive
Posts: 4,098
I am glad the food turned out to be at least somewhat better for you than some of the media reports had it.
But if I were in your situation and someone delegated by (or paid by) UA had shown up with a truck full of pizza and sandwiches and beer, it would go a long way toward assuaging my feelings toward the airline. It would almost be a party, and a good bonding experience. How hard is it to think of something like this?
But if I were in your situation and someone delegated by (or paid by) UA had shown up with a truck full of pizza and sandwiches and beer, it would go a long way toward assuaging my feelings toward the airline. It would almost be a party, and a good bonding experience. How hard is it to think of something like this?
Jun 15, 2015, 12:15 pm
#179
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Jun 15, 2015, 12:19 pm
#180
Join Date: Apr 2000
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It seems perfectly clear that the primary reason why UA did not call on other airlines, Sir Richard Branson — anyone — to help them out is because it would cost them money. In the present climate, UA's philosophy is don't spend a cent unless you absolutely have no other alternative.
Much cheaper to just leave a plane-load of passengers somewhere where they can't do any harm and rescue them as and when it's convenient. Anything to save those pesky dollars.
Unfortunately, United in following this default procedure fails to remember the power of social media, and indeed all media. That is what will cost them thousands of dollars in the long run as more and more people boycott the airline. Spending a bit of cash on sorting this case out would have paid dividends in the months to come.
Much cheaper to just leave a plane-load of passengers somewhere where they can't do any harm and rescue them as and when it's convenient. Anything to save those pesky dollars.
Unfortunately, United in following this default procedure fails to remember the power of social media, and indeed all media. That is what will cost them thousands of dollars in the long run as more and more people boycott the airline. Spending a bit of cash on sorting this case out would have paid dividends in the months to come.