UA Pilot Diverts to Remove Autistic Child From Plane for Safety Reasons
#421
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2. i think i get where u are coming from now (altho still disagree)...u seem fixated on whether or not the girl was a threat. "the legions" of evil posters (myself included) who align w/ UA are focused on whether or not a threat was made.
think alot of us "siding" w/ UA feel the mom's statement (to the effect of 'if she doesn't get a hot meal, will u help me once she has a meltdown and starts scratching') is simply defined a threat of potential violence against the girl and/or other passengers safety.
> since the mom is quoted as having allowed she said it in numerous interviews, i don't think there is any reason to respond to the request to prove that a threat was made
> if u don't view that statement as a threatening statement, then i think thats where we go off the rails
think alot of us "siding" w/ UA feel the mom's statement (to the effect of 'if she doesn't get a hot meal, will u help me once she has a meltdown and starts scratching') is simply defined a threat of potential violence against the girl and/or other passengers safety.
> since the mom is quoted as having allowed she said it in numerous interviews, i don't think there is any reason to respond to the request to prove that a threat was made
> if u don't view that statement as a threatening statement, then i think thats where we go off the rails
There are two options, mom made what could legitimately be considered a "threat" by a reasonable person, or no such threat was made. What about 3/4 of the posters on this thead say mom said "scratch someone" is NOT what the mom put on her FB post, and not what media reports which quote her as saying its just wrong. Other posters have wrongly claimed the girl actually scratched someone. None of this happened.
I think you agree with me that what the mom said could be, or could not be constured as a threat. I think you would also agree with me what nothing she said was a per se threat. So context/inflection matters.
Mustering the evidence, UA put her on a DL flight, police and parametics were just going to leave her on the flight. Pilot demanded she be removed. That says that once they landed and someone who did not cause the plane to devert looked at the situation, they realized it was never a situation. Hindsight is 20/20.
But at the time, was it reasonable to view a threat as having been made? This is why I keep coming back to that fact that everyone who heard/saw what happened thought the FA badly overreacted, there was no threat.
A bunch of people claimed there were witnesses to back up the FA, these folks have now gone radio silent, there are no witness to back up the FA, and at least 5 (one who reports several others) who back the mom.
In this context it is the FA vs. the mom + 5-6 witnesses. I give the edge to the 6, not the one, particular given the well documented propensity for certain FAs to go all power mad.
After reading all your posts, it seems to me the only new argument you're introducing to this thread is whether or not the mother's statement can be interpreted as a threat.
It's a valid point. If she didn't make a threat, I would be much less sure of UA's action and position. We read the statement, which the mother said she made, but we don't have the context. Was she crying hopelessly or was she snarling angrily? I might not consider the former as a threat. Words can mean different things.
Based on what I've seen, I interpret it as a threat, however small and unlikely it may have been.
....
You can believe the "witnesses" who stuck around to support the mother and give their quotes, as the mother asked them to (as seen on video), while the UA supporters likely just left the situation alone and went to their next flight. I suspect that if this ever gets to the stage of sworn affidavits/testimony, we'll see a much different story from passengers.
So, was it a threat or not? That's really all that's left to discuss at this point, and I don't know that we'll arrive at a definitive answer here.
The other stuff doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if the mother was prepared, if the daughter ate a meal at IAH, if the flight attendant was polite or snarky about the meal he brought, if the daughter was really going to have a meltdown or what that would consist of. All that matters is was a threat made or not. After that, the captain has to make a decision on how to best respond.
It's a valid point. If she didn't make a threat, I would be much less sure of UA's action and position. We read the statement, which the mother said she made, but we don't have the context. Was she crying hopelessly or was she snarling angrily? I might not consider the former as a threat. Words can mean different things.
Based on what I've seen, I interpret it as a threat, however small and unlikely it may have been.
....
You can believe the "witnesses" who stuck around to support the mother and give their quotes, as the mother asked them to (as seen on video), while the UA supporters likely just left the situation alone and went to their next flight. I suspect that if this ever gets to the stage of sworn affidavits/testimony, we'll see a much different story from passengers.
So, was it a threat or not? That's really all that's left to discuss at this point, and I don't know that we'll arrive at a definitive answer here.
The other stuff doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if the mother was prepared, if the daughter ate a meal at IAH, if the flight attendant was polite or snarky about the meal he brought, if the daughter was really going to have a meltdown or what that would consist of. All that matters is was a threat made or not. After that, the captain has to make a decision on how to best respond.
I do think that some of the details if correct paint UA in a bad light. E.g. selling her a sandwich, and then, despite a reasonable request refusing to warm it. Last I looked the A319/320 have an oven. The FA may not have wanted to help out, but he could have. That causes me to again not want to credit the FA here.
How has the family successfully flown in the past?
Even when I fly intercontinental F on good airlines (i.e., not a US carrier), I still don't get food with steam rolling off of it.
How can it possibly be UA's fault that they didn't have steaming hot food in Y on a domestic flight?
Greg
Even when I fly intercontinental F on good airlines (i.e., not a US carrier), I still don't get food with steam rolling off of it.
How can it possibly be UA's fault that they didn't have steaming hot food in Y on a domestic flight?
Greg
Last edited by WineCountryUA; May 18, 2015 at 11:07 pm Reason: quote updated to reflec Mod edit, stay to the issues and not the posters
#422
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: EWR, BDL
Posts: 4,471
According to an employee who met the flight when it diverted to SLC there is a lot more to the story then what the media or bloggers are protraying. Unfortunately she wasn't able to go into much detail about it. So it looks like we are only hearing part of what really happened.
#423
Join Date: Feb 2008
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According to an employee who met the flight when it diverted to SLC there is a lot more to the story then what the media or bloggers are protraying. Unfortunately she wasn't able to go into much detail about it. So it looks like we are only hearing part of what really happened.
If there is litigation, we can pull over a bowl of pop-corn.
#424
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ORD
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Paranoia + crappy planes + disgruntled employees = fantastic flying experience.
#425
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That may be, and those who actually saw what happened are the key. But at this point, 5 folks w/o an ax to grind are on record saying that the FA overreacted. So far there is nothing reported to supports the FA reasonably seeing a threat. Not saying it is not possible, just that it has not yet happened.
If there is litigation, we can pull over a bowl of pop-corn.
If there is litigation, we can pull over a bowl of pop-corn.
This is being played over and over in this thread. A lot of people asking for or claiming there isn't any evidence of a threat.
You mean other than the mother admitting she made the threat?
#426
Join Date: Feb 2003
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1) WFBF (Want First Buy First)
2) UAL would likely fire a FA for just about any excuse (if they could - the union couldn't help on this one) so please appreciate that the FA likely thought long & hard about serving a first class meal to an economy passenger, especially in this particular instance with all the fuss & fury. It goes beyond wanting to help the young girl, despite whatever the mom was up to.
Also, the FA surely would have suspected that other pax might be recording his/her actions or planning on writing into customer service about (or tweeting) the extraneous meal service. No good deed goes unpunished. [Its not like when a nice FA slips you a warm chocolate chip cookie when you're sitting in the bulkhead on a red-eye where nobody else might notice - ahhh warm pre-merger memories]
There are probably active (or ex) crew members on this forum who can comment further on this.
2) UAL would likely fire a FA for just about any excuse (if they could - the union couldn't help on this one) so please appreciate that the FA likely thought long & hard about serving a first class meal to an economy passenger, especially in this particular instance with all the fuss & fury. It goes beyond wanting to help the young girl, despite whatever the mom was up to.
Also, the FA surely would have suspected that other pax might be recording his/her actions or planning on writing into customer service about (or tweeting) the extraneous meal service. No good deed goes unpunished. [Its not like when a nice FA slips you a warm chocolate chip cookie when you're sitting in the bulkhead on a red-eye where nobody else might notice - ahhh warm pre-merger memories]
There are probably active (or ex) crew members on this forum who can comment further on this.
#427
My focus is not if the girl was a theat (no there is absolutely no arguement that she was). My focus is on if the mom made a threat. If she did then, its different. A threat is (1) what was said, and (2) the context in which it is said, and (3) the tone and inflection with which it is said. If I say to my friend, "hey man, I'm gonna kill you" He will immediately see from my tone its not a threat. If some crazy person calls the cops, the cops show up and quickly figure out a crazy person called them, no threat. If some biker in Wako says "I'm gonna kill you" well different story.
l.
l.
even if you want to believe that she said this also couched with a pretty please and a thank you....'context' and 'validity' matters very little.
If that was the case, we wouldn't hear about folks being arrested or fined for making 'jokes' about threats.
https://www.yahoo.com/travel/doctors...e-104158537382.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...orism-Act.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...orism-Act.html
Those are just the first three links that came up
Are you so certain that context and tone are decisive enough that you would be willing to make the same types of 'jokes' or vents?
#428
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#429
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Next time you're in an airport, take 5 minutes to just people watch. Air travelers might be the most unaware people in the world. They wear headphones, they have their eyes on a screen, they walk in a crowd of people and suddenly stop or turn around and are shocked that someone else was in the hallway with them.
Same thing on a lot of flights.
It would be interesting to see some of these folks under cross examination I think.
#430
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Like a child claiming to have an awesome secret they can't tell you.
#431
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#432
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Not to mention how many of these people only saw and heard bits of the total interaction.
Next time you're in an airport, take 5 minutes to just people watch. Air travelers might be the most unaware people in the world. They wear headphones, they have their eyes on a screen, they walk in a crowd of people and suddenly stop or turn around and are shocked that someone else was in the hallway with them.
Same thing on a lot of flights.
Next time you're in an airport, take 5 minutes to just people watch. Air travelers might be the most unaware people in the world. They wear headphones, they have their eyes on a screen, they walk in a crowd of people and suddenly stop or turn around and are shocked that someone else was in the hallway with them.
Same thing on a lot of flights.
#433
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 38,417
According to an employee who met the flight when it diverted to SLC there is a lot more to the story then what the media or bloggers are protraying. Unfortunately she wasn't able to go into much detail about it. So it looks like we are only hearing part of what really happened.
#434
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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#435
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