UA Pilot Diverts to Remove Autistic Child From Plane for Safety Reasons
#466
Join Date: May 2004
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IMhO, its not that the story didn't get widely reported (quite the contrary, as you cite... it had some legs). But everyone's 15min are up on the story.
The moment WN had the lady who's husband sent the suicide text.... the media has moved on to that "soup du jour", and the autistic passenger/grizzly mamma is all but forgotten.
The moment WN had the lady who's husband sent the suicide text.... the media has moved on to that "soup du jour", and the autistic passenger/grizzly mamma is all but forgotten.
#467
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sloppy reporters (often just copying other reports) change/modify things, which is why one can't rely upon things not in quotes.
The NYT (which actually fact checks things) has what the mom actually said in quotes: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/14/tr...hild.html?_r=0
As I have noted, from context, i take the mom as saying her daughter would scratch at herself, which is common for autistic kids. I'm not saying the FA did not hear it differently, or take a different meaning, but I see nothing that actually suggests a threat to harm "someone" which would - had it been made - have been more than a little different.
#468
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,324
Read it more carefully. the worse "someone" is found in some reports, but its not in quotes, and its not what the interviews show her saying.
sloppy reporters (often just copying other reports) change/modify things, which is why one can't rely upon things not in quotes.
The NYT (which actually fact checks things) has what the mom actually said in quotes: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/14/tr...hild.html?_r=0
As I have noted, from context, i take the mom as saying her daughter would scratch at herself, which is common for autistic kids. I'm not saying the FA did not hear it differently, or take a different meaning, but I see nothing that actually suggests a threat to harm "someone" which would - had it been made - have been more than a little different.
sloppy reporters (often just copying other reports) change/modify things, which is why one can't rely upon things not in quotes.
The NYT (which actually fact checks things) has what the mom actually said in quotes: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/14/tr...hild.html?_r=0
As I have noted, from context, i take the mom as saying her daughter would scratch at herself, which is common for autistic kids. I'm not saying the FA did not hear it differently, or take a different meaning, but I see nothing that actually suggests a threat to harm "someone" which would - had it been made - have been more than a little different.
#469
Join Date: May 2004
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To my mind, all the FA has to demonstrate is that based on his/her perception, the decision to go to the captain was reasonable, whether that decision was prompted by was concern for others in the cabin or concern for the child.
The FA does not have to prove that it was the same decision that another person would make, just that it isn't so out in left field that the only conclusion you can draw is vindictive behavior. The captain again only has to prove that the decision from their perspective was reasonable based on what was reported.
#470
Join Date: Jan 2010
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There are also multiple witnesses who stated the FA had an attitude problem (which probably led to miscommunication with the pilot). The paramedics left the plane because no medical services were needed. And a witness said the police told the girl's family that she was not perceived as a threat.
As spinn88 points out, it is significant that nobody who was there has come forward to say the mom was out of line, yet several stated that the FA's behavior was "ridiculous." Yes, there is a lot of online banter blaming the victims, but all in all, not a pretty PR picture for UA.
Last edited by dutyfree; May 20, 2015 at 3:53 pm
#471
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In fact, UA has been decimated on the disability rights forums, as well as on the legal blogs and on Twitter, with thousands of tweets calling for a UA boycott. Pundits view the incident as blatant discrimination because the request for a hot meal was reasonable as per the ACAA, which requires accommodations for those with special needs.
There are also multiple witnesses who stated the FA had an attitude problem (which probably led to miscommunication with the pilot). The paramedics left the plane because no medical services were needed. And a witness said the police told the girl's family that she was not perceived as a threat.
As spinn88 points out, it is significant that nobody who was there has come forward to say the mom was out of line. Yes, there is a lot of online banter blaming the victims, but all in all, not a pretty PR picture for UA.
There are also multiple witnesses who stated the FA had an attitude problem (which probably led to miscommunication with the pilot). The paramedics left the plane because no medical services were needed. And a witness said the police told the girl's family that she was not perceived as a threat.
As spinn88 points out, it is significant that nobody who was there has come forward to say the mom was out of line. Yes, there is a lot of online banter blaming the victims, but all in all, not a pretty PR picture for UA.
On the accommodation point (which I think is important, if only for optics) here is what AP said:
"The girl had refused to eat at a layover in Houston and had turned down nuts, raisins, a granola bar and Juliette's favorite blue Jolly Ranchers that the family had packed, Beegle said.
Beegle said Juliette wanted a hot meal, so Beegle bought a chicken sandwich on the plane and asked the flight crew to warm it in a microwave. The crew refused, she said, telling her the sandwich would get soggy."
That does sound like the UA we know. @:-) And how dare someone every ask United for help, the horror, the horror!
#472
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Again, I don't blame the pilot, he is locked in the pointy end, and what he knows is what the FA tells him. Had he not had the passengers removed he would have looked silly, that does not help UA here. Every report says that police and paramedics came on board, found no issue, and were leaving, when the pilot insisted the family leave. Those reports may be wrong, but if they are not, the judgement of the EMTs and police (that there was no threat posed by this family) will be very hard for UAL to overcome if this goes to a jury.
#473
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In fact, UA has been decimated on the disability rights forums, as well as on the legal blogs and on Twitter, with thousands of tweets calling for a UA boycott. Pundits view the incident as blatant discrimination because the request for a hot meal was reasonable as per the ACAA, which requires accommodations for those with special needs.
#474
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There is absolutely no requirement that a carrier provide meals for free because some person thinks that hot meals are what make her kid calm down. No different than demanding a free seat in F because your leg is in a cast and doesn't bend.
The FA's and Captain do the best they can with the information they have at hand. They get backed up by the carrier, the carrier gets pilloried a bit and the public moves on to the next story about how insensitive air carriers are, e.g., the diabetic who ddn't get breakfast on the TATL because UA ran out of food before they got to him, but he also never said anything because he didn't make a duss.
The FA's and Captain do the best they can with the information they have at hand. They get backed up by the carrier, the carrier gets pilloried a bit and the public moves on to the next story about how insensitive air carriers are, e.g., the diabetic who ddn't get breakfast on the TATL because UA ran out of food before they got to him, but he also never said anything because he didn't make a duss.
#475
Join Date: Dec 2004
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First, without going all OMNI, based on some of the stuff I read in the NYT they don't fact check,
Secnd, I was listening to a radio show earlier today that had an appellate court judge as a guest and the host and he were discussing this case. Hopefully his opinion is a majority legal opinion and he said UA did the right thing.
Secnd, I was listening to a radio show earlier today that had an appellate court judge as a guest and the host and he were discussing this case. Hopefully his opinion is a majority legal opinion and he said UA did the right thing.
#476
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Entirely agree. What childish attention whoring and then claiming to be 'professional' by not providing anything tangible - that's just wasting the media's and the readers' time.
In the Age of WhatsApp and FarceBook, I too expected something akin "Ur and mine" ....
In the Age of WhatsApp and FarceBook, I too expected something akin "Ur and mine" ....
#477
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First, without going all OMNI, based on some of the stuff I read in the NYT they don't fact check,
Secnd, I was listening to a radio show earlier today that had an appellate court judge as a guest and the host and he were discussing this case. Hopefully his opinion is a majority legal opinion and he said UA did the right thing.
Secnd, I was listening to a radio show earlier today that had an appellate court judge as a guest and the host and he were discussing this case. Hopefully his opinion is a majority legal opinion and he said UA did the right thing.
#478
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The mom is taking full advantage of her fifteen minutes of fame for sure, but I think a lot of the capability to mitigate was failed on the parents part by failing to inform UA before flight time of their daughter's condition, failing to prepare or otherwise accommodate (e.g. rebooking) when their daughter refused to eat in Houston, failing to fly in a class of service that would ordinarily provide a hot meal, using the threat of scratching (whether in a self-injurious fashion or threat against the passengers), etc...
Refusing to warm the chicken sandwich for the family (the one UA sells Hot on "selected flights") is what gets me. Yes, it was not "required" but it was certainly possible. The FA did not want to do something to help, and when the mom explaining the situation did not get the FA to relent.
#479
Join Date: Dec 2012
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First, without going all OMNI, based on some of the stuff I read in the NYT they don't fact check,
Secnd, I was listening to a radio show earlier today that had an appellate court judge as a guest and the host and he were discussing this case. Hopefully his opinion is a majority legal opinion and he said UA did the right thing.
Secnd, I was listening to a radio show earlier today that had an appellate court judge as a guest and the host and he were discussing this case. Hopefully his opinion is a majority legal opinion and he said UA did the right thing.
#480
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If United interrupted my trip mid-trip, and rebooked me on DL the rest of the way home, I would be ecstatic.
In fact, if I were on that flight, I would be upset that I wasn't the one booked on DL like the family was, and I had to continue on UA.