Always Flyin

Yep. Agree completely:

United these days is an airline for those locked into fortress hubs, those with corporate contracts (which are diminishing in number), Kayakers, and those who just don't know any better.

787fan

And AA/DL are for those who don't know what a nonstop flight is. Try flying NYC-PEK on either of those and you'll find yourself wasting precious time and youth at a connecting hub somewhere

BearX220

Look at UA's on-time and completion performance internationally before discussing wasted precious time and youth.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...ts-2014-a.html

exwannabe

Well, if I really want to be pedantic, the cash due to unearned revenue can also add to income as it generates interest. Of course with this cash being restricted (I presume) it is in short term treasuries making just over 0%.

More seriously, the airlines can look into the details of such sales and get much more data than just the raw $ number. The key data is of course how strong advance corporate booking look.

On the main topic, the worst thing possible for the US (country, not airline) fliers will be a financially weak UA. Many of us have only 2 real choices out of the 3 legacies. If UA can not square off against either DL or AA, those markets where it is UA+XX will suck to be in (and as a TPAC traveling ATL pax, this is me).

Alas I agree with most that this preview is just a glimore of hope, nothing more.

Also, if one looks into UA financials, it seams their relative failure is both revenue and costs. For example, they pay about $1B a year more on leases and fees at their hubs than DL does. Despite their denial at a recent CC, thye do have structural cost issues that need to somehow be addressed.

EWR764

The markets do not want to see United in a growth mode at present, as the jury is still out regarding whether the recent cost-control and revenue improvement initiatives will create stable, sustainable margin performance through the year. Only at that point would it be responsible for UA to grow in excess of their GDP benchmark, I think. Delta, on the other hand, is more advanced in its post-merger state and is able to flex capacity more effectively than UA is at this point. Plus, Delta's 50-seat replacement program is also well underway, compared to UA which is only in its infancy. I expect UA's own plan will drive some capacity growth as well.

Undoubtedly, AA+US will shrink as pre-merger redundancies are eliminated, which will likely come at a point where UA is ready to move into a measured expansion regime. It's clear that the company is reaching the end of the honeymoon phase, and the real integration work will be disruptive, no doubt.

Nevertheless, I don't see why UA as a #3 is necessarily a bad thing, as the top of the market settles into an oligopoly with three similarly-sized competitors with comparable portfolio strengths/weaknesses. I'd rather see UA in the third spot if it means less volatility and a better outlook going forward.

Always Flyin

One city pair does not a network make.

Firstly, it is not New York City to Beijing. It is Newark, New Jersey, one of the most despised of airports, to Beijing. And it is on a two-class 777 with footwells in business class designed for the feet of ten-year-olds with stunted growth.

Secondly, how many stops do I have to make on United if I want to fly DFW-HKG? On AA, I can do it non-stop.

Thirdly, and let's not talk about the abandonment of Bangkok by United . . .

Perhaps you don't mind how United treats its elites and how it flat out LIED to its million milers, but I do. And so do others. If you want to continue to fly this disaster of an airline, feel free, but don't expect those of us who know what it was, and what it has become, to accept indefensible arguments advanced in an effort to convince us otherwise.

EWR764

Yes, as a New Yorker I am quite grateful that I am able to avoid EWR for the Nirvana-esque experience (nay, privilege) of using JFK or LaGuardia instead!

jasondc

some people are so angry. about a silly airline.

Look, United isn't what it was before, it's something else. Regardless, they're trying to move on and adapt to the reality to today's market. And it appears that their efforts are starting to pay off. Jury is still out of course, but I'm amazed at the virulent hatred people on this board have towards a corporation.

I've flown them and others repeatedly, many times, over the last few months and years. My experiences have been positive on UA to very good. Nothing remarkably different than on DL or AA.

Bangkok was always a loser market that lost UA tons of money. The only reason Delta hasn't dropped it is because it doesn't have an alliance partner in Asia who they can use as their proxy. The minute DL gets things straightened out with Korean they'll drop BKK and let their customers connect over ICN, just in the same way that UA has its customers connect to NH at NRT.

Also, as an aside, I've lived in NYC and I have TONS of relatives and friends who live in NYC. Many, especially those on the west side and towards downtown, choose to fly from EWR, principally because of ease of access on the train. Also, they like Terminal C, which, I too, think is a great terminal. Those on the east side and especially the upper east side normally fly from LGA (or JFK, depending on destination), buy universally despise the experience at LGA - not quite the nice terminal, certainly not as nice as Terminal C at EWR.

Basically, I don't think that people give credit here where credit could be somewhat due. This outright hostility and hatred, as shown below, just seems misplaced. I think it's time to move on.

Always Flyin

I am not angry. I am just tired of people on this board trying to convince others that United is something that it clearly is not with indefensible arguments.

Of the three airlines in the U.S., UA is clearly at the bottom quality wise and treats its elites with more far more disdain than the other two.

From a passenger perspective, compared to its competition, United is a disaster, which leads to my tag line:

United these days is an airline for those locked into fortress hubs, those with corporate contracts (which are diminishing in number), Kayakers, and those who just don't know any better.

halls120

Oh, let's see. They have downgraded the FF program, downgraded the F and C soft product, behind the competition in getting rid of the crappy RJs, the coffee is swill, their OT performance lags the competition, and they call their best customers "over-entitled." You're really amazed?

While my UG percentage has improved as of late, everything else about the new UA lags what DL and AA offer. I just flew UA to SJC and AA back home. All flights were in F. AA's food and drink were far better than what UA provided. When I got to MIA early, I walked up to the DCA flight that had already started boarding and asked if it was too late to change. CSR took my BP for the later flight, and gave me a new F BP for the earlier flight. Transaction took about 90 seconds. I don't think SHARES could have matched that.

Maybe when UA actually deserves credit, they will get it. Their recent admission that their food and drink offerings are less than optimal is a perfect example. They announce it before it is rolled out - that's just ridiculous. You admit your soft product needs improvement, but instead of rolling out improvements at the same time you announce them, they set themselves up for more disappointed customers.

gengar

How is Penn Station > NJ Transit > EWR Air Train easier than Penn Station > LIRR > JFK/Jamaica Air Train? LIRR runs more frequently and is cheaper, too.

fly18725

Anyone can hold any opinion on a topic. For example, I am free to hold the opinion the Fed will cut interest rates in the next 12 months. Yet, this is not a fact. In reality, the opinion is in direct in conflict with guidance from the Fed and other related data, making the opinion, in all practicality, untrue.

UAL provided forward looking statements on capacity and fleet strategy on multiple occasions over the past year. One is free to hold an opinion that conflicts with these statements, just as I am free to point out that claims in direct conflict with reality are not facts and untrue.

I stand by my position that UAL's size in relation to its competitors, which was previously your point, may not be relevant. The network is relevant, though it's laughable to say that major holes have opened up. BKK and SEA-NRT/PDX are not major holes...

The network is still there, though domestic capacity is less than before.

Can you post a link to someone that is isolating one positive data point and claiming it obviates years of general decline? While you're looking, I'd point out that many are simply trying to point out that a) momentum shifted in 3Q14 and b) some will always spin any positive trend as bad news.

FWAAA

EWR? LGA/JFK? Tastes Great! Less Filling! Some prefer Newark and some prefer New York City. What else is new?

On Delta and BKK/SIN/MNL, I have to agree that once DL and KE kiss and make up and form an immunized joint venture, the DL NRT hub will be history. DL will still fly lots of flights between the USA and NRT, but won't be connecting passengers to those far-flung destinations once it has KE onboard to handle those connections over ICN.

Lie-flat seats? They sure don't guarantee huge profits; UA has 100% flat seats in C, yet UA earned a measly $430 million for the first half of 2014 (excl special items). As there are some of you in this thread who believe that excluding special items is an illegitimate exercise, UA earned a whopping $180 million for the first half of the year, including special items.

AA? First half earnings of $1.9 billion, excluding special items, even with so many crappy slanty business class seats. Including special items, AA's first half profits were $1.344 billion.

Another challenge facing UA is that if 100% lie-flat business class seats help the bottom line, then advantage AA as it replaces its slanty seats with lie-flat seats on its 763s and 772s (well underway on the 763s and just beginning on its 772s).

cerealmarketer

Travel time about the same all-in. Plenty of 20 minute gaps in the LIRR schedule.

You spend 6 minutes on the AirTrain from EWR Terminal C, 14 minutes from T4 at JFK.

LIRR is 20 minutes Jamaica to Penn, NJ Transit is 27 minutes EWR RailLink to Penn.

All splitting hairs.

EWR feels longer because the monorail operates at a slow speed and is small, but it covers a much shorter distance than the JFK AirTrain.

goalie

MODERATOR NOTE:

This thread is about United's Q3 PRASM and other assorted ASM's-please leave the personal attacks (snide, deliberate or otherwise) and other off topic comments out of the discussion

goalie
UA Forum Co-Moderator