26point2orbust

The 737s I've flown on the BOS-LAX route had DirecTV, so I'm not talking about any "dark" 737s.
I'm talking about people who don't complain about spending up to 6.5 hours flying across the US in domestic F class on a 737 or 757 with a cold "snack plate" and ceiling monitors, but absolutely refuse to fly 6.5 hours on a 757 with AVOD, BF seats and proper food because it's a transatlantic flight, and transatlantic flights must be on wide bodies...

LETTERBOY

My refusal to fly TATL on a narrowbody is not about IFE, or meals, or anything like that. I won't fly TATL in a narrowbody (in any class of service) if I can avoid it because I don't want to make an unscheduled fuel stop in Canada/New England. I'll connect in FRA, MUC, LHR, or CDG before I get on a narrowbody TATL.

26point2orbust

What percentage of the 757 flights have had to make unscheduled stops? You seem to think it's close to 100%, so what stats do you have?

fastair

I'm questioning your friends in revenue mgmt. about how profitable they are, when you quoted Stuttgart in your reply. If it was so EXTREMELY profitable, then why are they dropping it?

You are right, on the fact that SOME of these routes would be a blood bath on bigger airframes, but that doesn't make them such money earners on the current airframes. Just like some of those new 787 routes. While they might not make sense for a bigger airframe, until they have run awhile, there is no guarantee that a smaller frame on a long haul will be the right answer. Some of those routes may end up along side the Stuttgart route.= after the numbers come in for a bit. Downsizing to profitability doesn't always work, be it in network or in airframe. It can and has, but there are losers in this as well.

Col Ronson

i wasn't talking about those routes specifically, im talking about ALL TATL 757 routes run by AA, US, DL, UA. The majority of them are quite profitable which is the reason they are still in existence. airlines are not going to run loss-making routes, i think that much is obvious. Maybe UA will downsize regardless of profitability (that's pretty obvious based on current patterns), but other airlines (AA/US/DL) specifically are keeping their TATL 757 routes put.

As for Sttutgart, just because one city is being dumped doesn't mean the entire 757 TATL network is unprofitable...

LETTERBOY

I have no idea, but even once in a while is too often for me.

Please point to where I said that.

nerdbirdsjc

...but insist upon sitting on the Upper Deck of a Boeing 747.

JVPhoto

I'm curious to know too because in a few dozen I've never had a fuel stop.

UA-NYC

The two are highly different

SunLover

Westbound fuel stops are more likely to occur in the winter months when the jetstream head winds in the North Atlantic tracks are more severe.


SunLover

t18c97

When I was watching 121 over the winter it would seem like one a week it had to make a stop.

Col Ronson

seems a bit silly. I'll take the 2% fuel diversion chance (and compensation) over an additional 3-8 hours on my journey that involves an intra-european flight on a cramped high density A320 operated by LH or Brussels or TK or SAS.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/U...335Z/KEWR/EGPF

Tracking 161; no fuel stops in the past 10 days.

Tracking 54; no fuel stops in the past 10 days.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/U...125Z/KEWR/LFPG

I dont know all the 757 routes, but i would reckon fuel stops are not as often as people make it out to be.

WineCountryUA

if you want to track fuel stops, they are predominately Eur to USA and are in winter. So checking USA to Eur in summer is unlikely to show anything meaningful.

However I do agree with the advice, that of preferring the tradeoff of non-stop versus an occasional fuel stop (especially giving the limited parameters).

JOSECONLSCREW28

Current TATL 757 routes are:

EWR:
22/23 EWR - DUB - EWR 3,193 miles
24/25 EWR - SNN - EWR 3,096 miles
26/27 EWR - BHX - EWR 3,375 miles
36/37 EWR - EDI - EWR 3,268 miles
38/39 EWR - OSL - EWR 3,697 miles
62/63 EWR - MAD - EWR 3,607 miles
64/65 EWR - LIS - EWR 3,385 miles
68/69 EWR - ARN - EWR 3,930 miles
74/75 EWR - HAM - EWR 3,824 miles
76/77 EWR - BFS - EWR 3,257 miles
80/81 EWR - MAN - EWR 3,354 miles
108/109 EWR - EDI - EWR 3,268 miles
120/121 EWR - BCN - EWR 3,848 miles
130/131 EWR - DUB - EWR 3,193 miles
152/153 EWR - STR - EWR 3,936 miles
161/162 EWR - GLA - EWR 3,212 miles

IAD:
100/101 IAD - MAN - IAD 3,565 miles
122/123 IAD - LHR - IAD 3,677 miles
126/127 IAD - DUB - IAD 3,404 miles
163/164 IAD - MAD - IAD 3,817 miles

ORD:
66/67 ORD - SNN - ORD 3,591 miles
118/119 ORD - EDI - ORD 3,697 miles

mduell

For westbound TATL flights YTD, the UA 757 diversion rate is about 5x the rest of the UA TATL fleet.

For some flights it can be much much worse; take a look at UAL121 in Jan/Feb - 12 diversions in 59 days, that's over 20%!