GUWonder

It may seem to some that is the way that all FF programs seem to be heading, but that perception does not necessarily represent the broader FFP world -- rather that perception is more representative of what is going on in rather oligopolistic markets where one, two or three big industry cartel kingpins run the bulk of the "full-service" network show and there are fewer (or no) weak legacy network carriers left in the home market willing to buck the cartel kingpins' thuggish marketplace discipline efforts.

That said, the de novo airlines and de novo FFPs seem to be mostly starting off with the cash-based "rebate" way that DL, UA and others are pursuing.

IainC

Yes, that was my point?

CMK10

Indeed, I wouldn't trust United to leave the light on for me

vandrei

You did get more. You didn't have to tie up your plans and your money months ago - you are paying for the right to make your plans and plunk down money at the last minute.

vandrei

But they might stop flying United.

And then the burden is on United to fill that empty seat...which means United has to compete with other airlines.

GUWonder

Indeed.

The question is how many foolish customers are there out there for UA, as it's rather foolish -- even for the bulk of the frequent flying public -- to even consider paying UA's 2015 ransom rate of $1.50+/minute of flight time just to earn the same number of redeemable miles in 2015 as in 2014. Anyone unable or unwilling to pay the DL/UA per minute ransom rate (of over $1.50 per minute of flight time) has little or nothing to gain by maintaining the historical relationship with DL/UA because of the miles earned from flights to be used for "free" flights -- they should become Kayakers in the main and go kayaking where and when and how it makes sense for that particular trip.

JNelson113

Back when Delta first announced this and people here were speculating that UA would match, I suggested that UA do this and was hooted at. I was told that it was unworkable. I still think that this sort of a system is a fabulous way for one airline to capture a ton of business. I would absolutely go with whomever uses this system.

afrugal1

Brilliant! Somewhere there is a smiling Senator Bentsen right now. ^

GroundStop

^^ Best line in this 1500+ post thread!

I can just see $misek walking around Willis Tower with his underpants on his head and two pencils shoved up his nose

Silver Fox

But don't buy into the bs about this that that is what they are doing. It is a devaluation with some people being better off. Rewarding people who spend more could have been done in many different ways. This is just about devaluing the miles programs under the flag of "rewarding high spenders". And I believe that there is a cap on that too.

FlyDeltaJets87

Am I missing the part that says you have to buy your tickets in advance and can't wait as well and therefore "not tie up your money"? Sounds like a choice you make. And you're getting "more" too - a better deal on the ticket by buying in advance.

Just as I've said in the DL forum - it's time certain routes stopped becoming "buy one or two and get one free" because of the amount of miles received. The airlines are finally realizing that it's not-sustianable that after an $800 fare to BKK, one is earning nearly enough miles for a free domestic ticket (and more than enough for a free domestic award if the person is an elite receiving bonuses) - One could earn enough miles after just 2-3 transcons, possibly totaling only a few hundred in spend, to get a free domestic ticket that could be redeemed for a ticket that would otherwise have cost as much as was spent in total on those transcons.

Time those who spend $500+ on a ticket and only get a 1,000 to 2,000 miles because it's a short hop start getting rewarded on the same scale as those those who were spending $200 but getting 4,000 to 6,000 miles due to flying transcons.

wanderer35

An interesting angle to the changes: they are actually make it better for getting miles on some short flights.

I fly LGA-CLE RT a few times a year.
Discount fare in advance runs about $250-270. Say is is $260.
With the changes I will get 1300 miles.
Actual flight distance is about 420 miles, so right now a round trip gets me 840 miles.

O.K., so this is not going to get me enough for a RT to Europe, but every little bit helps.

Edit:
I see in the Q&A on the UA website that taxes and government imposed fees do not count towards the amount on which the number of points/miles are given.
That makes my calculations shown above incorrect.

GUWonder

Short-haul flyers generally won't maintain or gain miles under the 2015 scheme unless they are willing and able to pay at least $1.50+/minute of flight time. So you have to be willing to pay DL over c. $130/hour of your pretax income to have a reasonable chance to break even on earning miles under the new program.

Do you fly DL jets (as a pilot)? Isn't the cost for take-off and landing and fuel burn higher per passenger mile flown on a 30-minute flight than on a 5 hour flight (ceteris paribus)?

miasmal

To be sure I get this in my head right - PQM is still based on miles flown, correct?

Example

$1000 RT economy fare
5000 miles (to destination and back)
Platinum member

Current calculation:
8750 RDM (5000 x 1.75)
... of which 5000 is PQM

New calculation:
9000 RDM (1000 x 9)
... of which 5000 is PQM

exerda

Yes, and I don't see any reason for UA to change that given the fact they already account for price (via PQD) and also offer PQS for the short-hop pax.