Sep 21, 2017, 4:08 pm
The future of the LAX hub?
Nov 8, 2017, 4:13 pm
#361
Join Date: May 2012
Programs: UA
Posts: 1,098
I'm LAX based and I think it would be cool, however almost every European *A airline that has long haul equipment flies to LAX and only LH does it more than 1x daily. UA can't even get more than 1x LHR although BA is doing 3x daily.
Nov 9, 2017, 4:27 pm
#362
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: LAX and LHR. UA lifetime Gold 1.9MM 1K , DL Gold Medallion, HHonors Gold, Marriott Gold, Avis President's Club
Posts: 3,592
Nov 9, 2017, 7:39 pm
#363
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MRY - CNX - TXL
Programs: UA 1K / *G / Marriott PE / Expedia Gold+ / Hertz PC
Posts: 7,058
Nov 9, 2017, 7:53 pm
#364
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,417
AA and DL both give PQD on partner flights, based on a fraction of the PQM. UA really ought to follow suit. I was hoping they'd do so for 2018, but it feels like it may be too late in the year for an announcement like that. It's ridiculous to have to choose between a discount fare and PQDs.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Nov 9, 2017 at 8:33 pm Reason: Modifing quoted content is not allowed
Nov 9, 2017, 8:00 pm
#365
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,478
Nov 9, 2017, 9:44 pm
#366
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,067
Nov 9, 2017, 10:07 pm
#367
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,478
Nov 11, 2017, 6:03 am
#368
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: SAN
Programs: 1K (since 2008), *G (since 1990), 1MM
Posts: 3,219
+1
International flights - I can choose a number of international flights out of LAX and the UA connection to SAN is so hit and miss with delayed flights and the flight schedule such that it is often less expensive to get a car home (and miss the last part of the return flight). I choose based on cost and benefit out of LAX.
Domestic flights - nothing beats South West for quick trips to Vegas (from SAN) although I will take UA every so often but only if the price is right. UA taught me well.
Starting next year I am so looking forward to Lufthansa flying non-stop SAN-FRA, and then I can connect elsewhere to Europe. Adding to the SAN non-stop international flight network.
UA should think about some flights to Hawaii out of SAN...I am starting to consider Hawaiian Airlines going forward
International flights - I can choose a number of international flights out of LAX and the UA connection to SAN is so hit and miss with delayed flights and the flight schedule such that it is often less expensive to get a car home (and miss the last part of the return flight). I choose based on cost and benefit out of LAX.
Domestic flights - nothing beats South West for quick trips to Vegas (from SAN) although I will take UA every so often but only if the price is right. UA taught me well.
Starting next year I am so looking forward to Lufthansa flying non-stop SAN-FRA, and then I can connect elsewhere to Europe. Adding to the SAN non-stop international flight network.
UA should think about some flights to Hawaii out of SAN...I am starting to consider Hawaiian Airlines going forward
The SAN flights may only be once a day on BA/AC/AS/JL/LH/WK but it does provide me options for non-stop flights.
I will also go to LAX for other non-stop flights.
LAX may not be a hub for UA, but LAX and SAN provide me great options for connecting internationally (just not with UA).
Nov 11, 2017, 7:31 am
#369
Join Date: Sep 2009
Programs: United GS/MM, Marriott LT Titanium Elite
Posts: 242
I certainly understand UA thinks west coast folks are willing to connect to SFO or perhaps DEN/IAH but in SAN I am getting more options every day for international flights. Just read that AS is starting flights from SAN-MEX.
The SAN flights may only be once a day on BA/AC/AS/JL/LH/WK but it does provide me options for non-stop flights.
I will also go to LAX for other non-stop flights.
LAX may not be a hub for UA, but LAX and SAN provide me great options for connecting internationally (just not with UA).
The SAN flights may only be once a day on BA/AC/AS/JL/LH/WK but it does provide me options for non-stop flights.
I will also go to LAX for other non-stop flights.
LAX may not be a hub for UA, but LAX and SAN provide me great options for connecting internationally (just not with UA).
Nov 12, 2017, 10:25 am
#370
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: SAN
Programs: 1K (since 2008), *G (since 1990), 1MM
Posts: 3,219
I avoid connecting east coast whenever possible - my international flights are invariably delayed or cancelled. So am willing to connect via IAH/SFO/DEN if I have to but no further. There is a huge difference in service between domestic and international.
So the more non-stop international flights from SAN (or LAX) the better in my view.
Nov 30, 2017, 7:04 pm
#371
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
2017: AA: 18.8%; DL 16.7%; UA 14%; SWA 11.6%; AS+VX 8.5% [Skywest flights are now under the contracting carrier in LAX’s numbers]
2013: AA/Eagle: 17%, US 3% (20% total) UA 16.3%, DAL 13.5%, SWA 11%, AS 5% , SkyWest 3.5%.
2010: AA/American Eagle 15.9%, US 3.2%, UA 13.1%, CO 4.5% (total 17.6%) DAL 11.1%, AS 4.5%, SWA 11.6%, SkyWest 4.3%.
p.s. figures for 2013 and 2010 are from my post way back in 2014, responding in part to you, and predicting what we are seeing now as the end result: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/22278585-post44.html
Dec 1, 2017, 1:18 am
#372
Join Date: Apr 2011
Programs: WN, AA, UA, DL
Posts: 1,313
It was a bummer to see UA leave, and I'm a little surprised they didn't stick it out after AA left. But LAX-MSP became a bloodbath when AA entered and DL ramped-up capacity to absurd levels (it was at least 8x peak dailies this summer, with mostly 752s and 753s), so it's not surprising to see both leave. It was nice to have to have a cheap route ex-MSP, but their customers used to those cheap flights not lasting. Fortress hubs suck.
So that's why the #2 LAX carrier doesn't fly to ORD, right? You're right, hard to keep a broad network in LAX when you don't fly to one of the top O&D markets.
Tough to keep a broad network when you drop from the largest carrier ex-LAX (2010) to #3 . These are the follow-on impacts of cutting capacity that we have long talked about. For the record, here are the market shares ex-LAX, when Jeff took over, in the first full year of his savvy cut service and produce quality plan, and now this year:
2017: AA: 18.8%; DL 16.7%; UA 14%; SWA 11.6%; AS+VX 8.5% [Skywest flights are now under the contracting carrier in LAX’s numbers]
2013: AA/Eagle: 17%, US 3% (20% total) UA 16.3%, DAL 13.5%, SWA 11%, AS 5% , SkyWest 3.5%.
2010: AA/American Eagle 15.9%, US 3.2%, UA 13.1%, CO 4.5% (total 17.6%) DAL 11.1%, AS 4.5%, SWA 11.6%, SkyWest 4.3%.
p.s. figures for 2013 and 2010 are from my post way back in 2014, responding in part to you, and predicting what we are seeing now as the end result: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/22278585-post44.html
2017: AA: 18.8%; DL 16.7%; UA 14%; SWA 11.6%; AS+VX 8.5% [Skywest flights are now under the contracting carrier in LAX’s numbers]
2013: AA/Eagle: 17%, US 3% (20% total) UA 16.3%, DAL 13.5%, SWA 11%, AS 5% , SkyWest 3.5%.
2010: AA/American Eagle 15.9%, US 3.2%, UA 13.1%, CO 4.5% (total 17.6%) DAL 11.1%, AS 4.5%, SWA 11.6%, SkyWest 4.3%.
p.s. figures for 2013 and 2010 are from my post way back in 2014, responding in part to you, and predicting what we are seeing now as the end result: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/22278585-post44.html
Dec 1, 2017, 6:00 am
#373
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: What I write is my opinion alone..don't read into it anything not written.
Posts: 9,686
Tough to keep a broad network when you drop from the largest carrier ex-LAX (2010) to #3 . These are the follow-on impacts of cutting capacity that we have long talked about. For the record, here are the market shares ex-LAX, when Jeff took over, in the first full year of his savvy cut service and produce quality plan, and now this year:
2017: AA: 18.8%; DL 16.7%; UA 14%; SWA 11.6%; AS+VX 8.5% [Skywest flights are now under the contracting carrier in LAX’s numbers]
2013: AA/Eagle: 17%, US 3% (20% total) UA 16.3%, DAL 13.5%, SWA 11%, AS 5% , SkyWest 3.5%.
2010: AA/American Eagle 15.9%, US 3.2%, UA 13.1%, CO 4.5% (total 17.6%) DAL 11.1%, AS 4.5%, SWA 11.6%, SkyWest 4.3%.
p.s. figures for 2013 and 2010 are from my post way back in 2014, responding in part to you, and predicting what we are seeing now as the end result: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/22278585-post44.html
2017: AA: 18.8%; DL 16.7%; UA 14%; SWA 11.6%; AS+VX 8.5% [Skywest flights are now under the contracting carrier in LAX’s numbers]
2013: AA/Eagle: 17%, US 3% (20% total) UA 16.3%, DAL 13.5%, SWA 11%, AS 5% , SkyWest 3.5%.
2010: AA/American Eagle 15.9%, US 3.2%, UA 13.1%, CO 4.5% (total 17.6%) DAL 11.1%, AS 4.5%, SWA 11.6%, SkyWest 4.3%.
p.s. figures for 2013 and 2010 are from my post way back in 2014, responding in part to you, and predicting what we are seeing now as the end result: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/22278585-post44.html
Dec 1, 2017, 1:24 pm
#374
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
The trends at LAX are very clear: UA substantially pulled down capacity ex-LAX, and as key routes went away, traffic fell further. United has been in a downward spiral at LAX since Jeff took over, Kirby has said he LAX is one of the places he wants to grow, but ongoing cuts (like this LAX-MSP) show to me that UA is well past the tipping point.
Dec 1, 2017, 1:55 pm
#375
Join Date: Apr 2011
Programs: WN, AA, UA, DL
Posts: 1,313
Yes, and No. AA+US did not happen until 2013. UA was the biggest carrier (once CO was added) from the date of the merger until 2013, and the 17.6% figure is low since it does not include Skywest, which opperated a lot of feeder flights for UA ex-LAX.
The trends at LAX are very clear: UA substantially pulled down capacity ex-LAX, and as key routes went away, traffic fell further. United has been in a downward spiral at LAX since Jeff took over, Kirby has said he LAX is one of the places he wants to grow, but ongoing cuts (like this LAX-MSP) show to me that UA is well past the tipping point.
The trends at LAX are very clear: UA substantially pulled down capacity ex-LAX, and as key routes went away, traffic fell further. United has been in a downward spiral at LAX since Jeff took over, Kirby has said he LAX is one of the places he wants to grow, but ongoing cuts (like this LAX-MSP) show to me that UA is well past the tipping point.
If you look at raw traffic and not percentages, you will see that UA has not "been in a downward spiral" at LAX, has not "substantially pulled down capacity", nor implemented "ongoing cuts". Those are false statements. Even if you give all SkyWest flying to the UA banner in 2010, which is not accurate, UA is off only 10% at LAX. The likely truth is that UA is somewhere in the flat to down 6 or 7% range for traffic LAX since 2010. If UA worked for a customer back then, it likely works for them today.