MP Accounts Closed by UA Alleging Fraud/Misuse
#1816
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Honolulu Harbor
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 15,331
I don't think UA wants to set up a bureaucracy to decide varying types of punishment, a "prison system", and a "parole" system to monitor people have proven themselves to be rule breakers. United has decided selling of their points (they are UA's points, not the customers') results in the death penalty. UA doesn't hide the fact that selling miles/points can result in loss of accounts (status, miles, points, etc). The only thing I would suggest is United put it more in the face of redeemers - maybe anytime miles or point are applied to anyone's ticket other than the account holder a big screen:
#1817
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: MBS/FNT/LAN
Programs: UA 1K, HH Gold, Mariott Gold
Posts: 9,653
Anybody experienced this recently? Appalling experience. They don't even tell what you did wrong or violated or started a conversation, just closed your account, wipe out your miles, and deleted your status. Is that a covid-19 aftermath? United is desperate to write off liabilities on their balance sheet so they no longer care a 20-year loyal member? Again, appalling,
#1818
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, AA, DL
Posts: 7,575
I realize that a good portion of the people coming here to complain about their account getting closed probably did know it was against the rules. But I also bet there are a fair number who don't. I"m not excusing not reading rules or "not knowing the law isn't a defense", but why not fully cover those situations with a simple reminder? It's not like there aren't 3-4 confirmations before you buy a ticket, with $$ or miles, anyway.
And to address the person who does buy a lot of miles tickets or upgrades for others - legitimately - UA could include a tick box that "don't show me this dialog again for 1 year".
#1819
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HNL
Programs: UA GS4MM, MR LT Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,448
One thing I also just noticed - when you sign up for MileagePlus - the program rules, which start with a bolded Important is located right before you click Accept and Enroll
There really is no excuse.
There really is no excuse.
#1820
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: JZRO
Posts: 9,175
#1821
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: USA
Programs: UA Platinum, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,284
Once UA starts going down a road with gradations of punishments, they have to have an adjudication process and they open themselves up to having to prove the level of infraction and negotiating the punishment. I suspect there aren't any single flyers who it would be worth setting up that kind of process and headache for. The offenders were not only profiting off the upgrades that were offered (thereby creating tax implications for all of us with loyalty/reward accounts as well as the airlines) but were enabling people who DIDN'T earn the rewards to block out spaces that might otherwise have gone to reward another dedicated customer.
Blanking rather deleting the offender's account holds a certain attraction but I really don't have a problem with what United's doing now (then again, I've never sold miles or upgrades or anything). Deleting rather than blanking sends a stronger message about not really wanting certain customers in a loyalty program due to demonstrated behavior.
Blanking rather deleting the offender's account holds a certain attraction but I really don't have a problem with what United's doing now (then again, I've never sold miles or upgrades or anything). Deleting rather than blanking sends a stronger message about not really wanting certain customers in a loyalty program due to demonstrated behavior.
#1822
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: United Global Services, Amtrak Select Executive
Posts: 4,239
The entire premise of OP's complaint is their claim that they didn't know they were doing anything wrong, and therefore UA's punishment was unfair. The precise circumstances of OP's sales of upgrades could speak to the credibility of that claim.
#1824
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: K+K
Programs: *G
Posts: 4,927
One of the most popular case of this nature was the man who bought an American airpass for 250k (~500k in today's dollars), ensuring any seat any time for the rest of his life, who eventually had it taken away from him.
The public was appalled at how greedy and brazen the airlines was, esp for a person who had spent so much on the instruments.
Turns out, he was wildly abusive of the privileges, in obvious, clear, and repeated violations of the use agreement.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...-golden-ticket
The public was appalled at how greedy and brazen the airlines was, esp for a person who had spent so much on the instruments.
Turns out, he was wildly abusive of the privileges, in obvious, clear, and repeated violations of the use agreement.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...-golden-ticket
#1826
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HNL
Programs: UA GS4MM, MR LT Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,448
Even eBay prohibits the sale of upgrades - that should also be a wake up call.
Travel policy | eBay
Travel policy | eBay
- Resale of travel-related incentives such as awards, coupons, upgrades, etc that are subject to cancellation by the travel provider if resold
#1827
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CLE, DCA, and 30k feet
Programs: Honors LT Diamond; United 1K; Hertz PC
Posts: 4,378
This is very simple as it is: You agree to the rules (which warn you that breaking them may result in being bounced) You break the rules, you get caught, you get bounced. Very cut and dry, very fair implementation, very little room for claims of preferential or discriminatory treatment.
#1829
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NYC
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,373
It depends on how good UA's detection mechanism is - if it's really bad, then maybe a few isolated death penalties enhance deterrence, though one could say the same thing for speeding - can't catch them all but if we make the penalty really, really high, with the death penalty, then no one will speed.
But assuming they're even half decent at detecting they absolutely could use a warning system. They could also include a punishment of forfeiture of the points/miles at issue - i.e., "We determined you bartered those miles - we're going to cancel the ticket/upgrade and you won't get your miles/points back. If we detect further similar activity your MP account will be cancelled and all benefits forfeited."
But assuming they're even half decent at detecting they absolutely could use a warning system. They could also include a punishment of forfeiture of the points/miles at issue - i.e., "We determined you bartered those miles - we're going to cancel the ticket/upgrade and you won't get your miles/points back. If we detect further similar activity your MP account will be cancelled and all benefits forfeited."
If their process is anything like AA's, it's not even the MP program that does this, but a separate, impenetrable, intractable corporate security department who, by the time they make a decision or even bother to contact you, almost always know exactly what the facts are and whether it is even worth it to allow you to explain yourself honestly and remain in the program.