Nov 1, 2013, 4:08 am
Last edit by: aacharya
Moderator Note: Please keep the wiki post limited to just the facts.
New UA Award/Upgrade Chart (vs. Current Chart)
Changes took effect for travel booked starting February 3, 2014. See UA Insider's post linked here for more info about the date change. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/22263212-post2366.html
Awards with *A partners now cost more than similar awards flown only on UA metal.
See below for the round-trip increases on partner metal :
Changes to upgrade policy for intra-Asia and northern South America flights
Questions and Answers
Q: If I book an award in January 2014 and then make changes in February or beyond (in routing, airline, origin, destination, etc), will it be repriced according to new mileage requirements, or will I keep the old pricing on that ticket?
Additional details on changing tickets booked prior to 2/3/14 per UA Insider:
Full details are in post #2588 http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/22283437-post2588.html
Q: Do these rates apply for tickets purchased after Feb 3 or for travel after Feb 3? That is,if one purchases a ticket now, to fly on Mar 15, will that be new or old pricing?
Q: How will award pricing apply to mixed-carrier Saver Awards?
(reverted to J.Edward's rev)
New UA Award/Upgrade Chart (vs. Current Chart)
Changes took effect for travel booked starting February 3, 2014. See UA Insider's post linked here for more info about the date change. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/22263212-post2366.html
Awards with *A partners now cost more than similar awards flown only on UA metal.
- F awards on partners went up 40-80%
- J awards on partners went up 20-40%
- F and J awards on UA metal (or mixed carriers where UA metal is in premium cabin followed by partner segment in lower class) as well some Y awards increased by 5-20% (US to Europe in F up 19%, US to Middle East in F up 20% for example)
See below for the round-trip increases on partner metal :
US ✈ Southern South America: +10,000 J, +5,000 F
US ✈ Europe: +40,000 J, +85,000 F
US ✈ Northern/Central/Southern Africa: +40,000 J, +110,000 F
US ✈ Middle East: +5,000 Y, +40,000 J, +130,000 F
US ✈ Central Asia/India: +5,000 Y, +40,000 J, +120,000 F
US ✈ South Asia: +15,000 Y, +40,000 J, +120,000 F
US ✈ North Asia: +5,000 Y, +40,000 J, +100,000 F
US ✈ Japan: +5,000 Y, +30,000 J, +85,000 F
US ✈ Oceania: +30,000 J, +70,000 F
US ✈ Australia/New Zealand: +25,000 J, +100,000 F
RTW: +20,000 Y, +90,000 J, +100,000 F
US ✈ Europe: +40,000 J, +85,000 F
US ✈ Northern/Central/Southern Africa: +40,000 J, +110,000 F
US ✈ Middle East: +5,000 Y, +40,000 J, +130,000 F
US ✈ Central Asia/India: +5,000 Y, +40,000 J, +120,000 F
US ✈ South Asia: +15,000 Y, +40,000 J, +120,000 F
US ✈ North Asia: +5,000 Y, +40,000 J, +100,000 F
US ✈ Japan: +5,000 Y, +30,000 J, +85,000 F
US ✈ Oceania: +30,000 J, +70,000 F
US ✈ Australia/New Zealand: +25,000 J, +100,000 F
RTW: +20,000 Y, +90,000 J, +100,000 F
Changes to upgrade policy for intra-Asia and northern South America flights
- Complimentary Premier Upgrades and instant upgrades are not applicable
- Regional Premier Upgrades (for any fare class) and Global Premier Upgrades (for flights booked in fare class Z, P, S, T, L, K, G or N) can no longer be requested on or after November 1, 2013
- There is no co-pay exemption for MileagePlus Upgrade Awards requested on or after November 1, 2013
- The above changes do not apply to Copa-operated flights.
Questions and Answers
Q: If I book an award in January 2014 and then make changes in February or beyond (in routing, airline, origin, destination, etc), will it be repriced according to new mileage requirements, or will I keep the old pricing on that ticket?
Our existing change process will apply. Changes to awards that require a change in date do not result in a change to the award price. Any other change will require an add/collect in miles and fees for changes or cancellations will still apply as per our existing policies.
Changes that will not trigger a re-price for itineraries ticketed before February 3, 2014 include:
- Date/time (cabin, region, and award type can't change)
- Carrier on one or more segments (cabin, region, and award type can’t change)
- Origin/Destination within the same regions (carrier and cabin can’t change)
Q: Do these rates apply for tickets purchased after Feb 3 or for travel after Feb 3? That is,if one purchases a ticket now, to fly on Mar 15, will that be new or old pricing?
Updated handling for mixed UA-Partner United/partner award itineraries: As we shared with the initial announcement, the Star Alliance/Partner partner award pricing will apply to Business or First awards for itineraries that include at least one flight segment operated by a MileagePlus partner carrier in Business or First.
However, as a customer benefit we have made an exception for most itineraries which require connecting onto a MileagePlus/Star partner in First or Business for a short distance. Specifically, if a United/Copa award itinerary contains a connecting segment on a MileagePlus/Star partner that is wholly within one MileagePlus award region, then the United award price will apply.
However, as a customer benefit we have made an exception for most itineraries which require connecting onto a MileagePlus/Star partner in First or Business for a short distance. Specifically, if a United/Copa award itinerary contains a connecting segment on a MileagePlus/Star partner that is wholly within one MileagePlus award region, then the United award price will apply.
- For example: IAD-FRA in United BusinessFirst connecting to FRA-FCO in Lufthansa Business, will be priced at the United mileage award amount.
- Note that this exception will not apply to a few specific regions and routings, such as intra-Africa connecting segments and certain fifth-freedom routes (e.g. BKK-KUL operated by Lufthansa)
Changes to MileagePlus Award and Upgrade Policies - Eff. 3-Feb-2014
Nov 5, 2013, 2:21 pm
#1456
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DCA
Programs: UA LT 1K, AA EXP, Bonvoy LT Titan, Avis PC, Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,658
The problem is that originally the FF programs were a way to encourage loyality by giving frequent travelers an occassional free seat on a flight that would otherwise be empty.
But it has evolved to another way to sell tickets - by having CC companies buy points which can be used to buy tickets. Yes you are buying a ticket with CC points. You could get a cash back CC and collect the dollars in lieu of airline ticket purchases.
Points have just become another form of currency.
But it has evolved to another way to sell tickets - by having CC companies buy points which can be used to buy tickets. Yes you are buying a ticket with CC points. You could get a cash back CC and collect the dollars in lieu of airline ticket purchases.
Points have just become another form of currency.
Nov 5, 2013, 2:32 pm
#1457
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 217
Sure. But compared to simple card churning or previously popular manufactured spend tricks that are no longer possible like the mint trick or buying VR cards on an Ink card at Staples for a 5x bonus and depositing them in Bluebird, they are more cumbersome, take a lot more time, and often involve tying up lots of cash in float. Do people do them? Yes - but I suspect not nearly in the numbers many folks suspect. Most folks have a life, and are more financially cautious and have more of a sense of ethics than a reader of the popular travel tricks blogs would guess.
The truly EASY loopholes have largely been closed.
The truly EASY loopholes have largely been closed.
One wonders then, if this is simply about cost of benefits going up, that they looked at the cross charges from *A partners and choked.
Nov 5, 2013, 2:47 pm
#1458
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 5,825
I know from a customers perspective, I can buy from .021 - .035 or so today.
How much did UA used to sell it's miles to customers / partners for years ago?
Regarding devaluations: Earn, burn. In the very best case scenario, miles / points do not appreciate in value!
Nov 5, 2013, 2:48 pm
#1459
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 825
The problem is that originally the FF programs were a way to encourage loyality by giving frequent travelers an occassional free seat on a flight that would otherwise be empty.
But it has evolved to another way to sell tickets - by having CC companies buy points which can be used to buy tickets.
But it has evolved to another way to sell tickets - by having CC companies buy points which can be used to buy tickets.
But that's where the problem comes in. Seats which would otherwise not sell are becoming rarer due to higher loads and better revenue management techniques - but the number of miles sold has increased over the years as airlines have found selling miles to be quite lucrative. Hence the introduction of standard awards at double (or more) of the price, and periodic devaluations of award charts. If the airlines sold fewer miles (but priced them higher) some of these problems would be lessened, but so far they've shown little willingness to restrain themselves.
Nov 5, 2013, 2:58 pm
#1460
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 217
Or more specifically (in the case of saver awards, which is what most people want), to buy points which can then be used to buy distressed merchandise (seats which would otherwise go unoccupied) at a steep discount.
But that's where the problem comes in. Seats which would otherwise not sell are becoming rarer due to higher loads and better revenue management techniques - but the number of miles sold has increased over the years as airlines have found selling miles to be quite lucrative. Hence the introduction of standard awards at double (or more) of the price, and periodic devaluations of award charts. If the airlines sold fewer miles (but priced them higher) some of these problems would be lessened, but so far they've shown little willingness to restrain themselves.
But that's where the problem comes in. Seats which would otherwise not sell are becoming rarer due to higher loads and better revenue management techniques - but the number of miles sold has increased over the years as airlines have found selling miles to be quite lucrative. Hence the introduction of standard awards at double (or more) of the price, and periodic devaluations of award charts. If the airlines sold fewer miles (but priced them higher) some of these problems would be lessened, but so far they've shown little willingness to restrain themselves.
Nov 5, 2013, 3:15 pm
#1461
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: MEL
Programs: VAG
Posts: 1,865
Jorgen, as a fellow Aussie UA flyer, which airline have you moved to? As a UA flyer since 1984 I am stuck as to which airline to move to as I feel UA, despite all the devaluations since CO took over, still has the best FF program. These changes stink but on the whole we Aussie flyers have not been hit as hard as our US colleagues. However, day by day I am realizing that the UA I knew and treated me as a valued Elite no longer exists.
Virgin Australia is my primary because I want some kind of domestic status, and VA makes it easy for me to earn and retain Gold (only need two thirds the status credits I'd need on QF). VA Platinum gives you very little more than gold.
QF or AA are the other good options, of course, but I wasn't confident I could maintain gold status on either of these. If I flew a lot more I'd probably go with AA.
VA is partners with SQ, NZ, DL and Etihad plus a few more so it can get you most places on the planet, but I figure it's good to keep a "cheap" Star Gold status in my back pocket too, so I'm planning to get it on OZ (40,000 miles every two years). I haven't started working on that one yet, though.
Earn/burn rates on VA tend to be worse than UA even now. But I actually work for the Australian government now, which means I fly on WOAG fares, which means I earn no FF points for work-related travel anyway
thus for me nowadays it's mostly about status.I should also add that I acquired UA status while actually living in SFO where it was pretty much a necessity. Now I live in MEL my situation has changed considerably, so I didn't leave UA just because UA got worse.
Nov 5, 2013, 3:19 pm
#1462
Join Date: Sep 2009
Programs: UA GS>1K>Nothing; DL DM 2MM; AS 75K>Nothing>MVP
Posts: 9,341
You're under the impression that UA's high-paying customers are going to stay away in droves now that the mileage price of award tickets has gone up. I'm guessing that UA knows a lot more about its customers than you think it does, and has come to the conclusion that this will not happen.
Everyone on this board chooses airlines based on FF program. That's called a biased sample. In the real world, most people - including many who fly a LOT and buy J and F tickets - do not even consider FF program. Or if they do, it's a minor consideration. I can't tell you the number of people I've talked to who believe that FF programs are an outright fraud, that it's impossible to redeem miles for convenient flights, and who are unwilling to alter their schedule even a little bit in order to accumulate miles on one airline. Some of these people fly J for work because it's paid for. For these vast numbers of people, UA's award chart devaluation is completely meaningless. And that is why it will benefit UA's shareholders in the long run.
Everyone on this board chooses airlines based on FF program. That's called a biased sample. In the real world, most people - including many who fly a LOT and buy J and F tickets - do not even consider FF program. Or if they do, it's a minor consideration. I can't tell you the number of people I've talked to who believe that FF programs are an outright fraud, that it's impossible to redeem miles for convenient flights, and who are unwilling to alter their schedule even a little bit in order to accumulate miles on one airline. Some of these people fly J for work because it's paid for. For these vast numbers of people, UA's award chart devaluation is completely meaningless. And that is why it will benefit UA's shareholders in the long run.
The airlines can tell you how much a fare change will impact load on next Wednesday's flight to Cleavland but they have no idea how changes will impact revenue per passenger over the next two years.
On top of that, it's at the the margin which makes or breaks a business. Don't know if I'm typical but if 1/100th of 1% of MP members have a spend like mine and leave, US loses $1 billion annually.
Nov 5, 2013, 3:38 pm
#1463
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Programs: AA LT Plat, UA 1k/1mm+, National EE, IC Plat, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 2,605
Oh and AA metal was unavailable in the time period I was trying to travel.
Nov 5, 2013, 3:42 pm
#1464
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: AA LT PLT 3 MM+, BA (very) Blue, CO nobody
Posts: 2,640
I may be buying a ticket - it's just that I am not paying for it 
If I get a CC and do the required spend (only on things I would buy anyway - food, gas, travel, car insurance, etc - very easy to do) then the miles I got are free as is the award ticket I "buy" with those miles (oh, it may me cost $5 or $10 in fees).
If I get a CC and do the required spend (only on things I would buy anyway - food, gas, travel, car insurance, etc - very easy to do) then the miles I got are free as is the award ticket I "buy" with those miles (oh, it may me cost $5 or $10 in fees).
Nov 5, 2013, 3:48 pm
#1465
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.997MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,859
I may be buying a ticket - it's just that I am not paying for it
If I get a CC and do the required spend (only on things I would buy anyway - food, gas, travel, car insurance, etc - very easy to do) then the miles I got are free as is the award ticket I "buy" with those miles (oh, it may me cost $5 or $10 in fees).
If I get a CC and do the required spend (only on things I would buy anyway - food, gas, travel, car insurance, etc - very easy to do) then the miles I got are free as is the award ticket I "buy" with those miles (oh, it may me cost $5 or $10 in fees).
Nov 5, 2013, 3:59 pm
#1466
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 825
This is a very important point - one way or another, you PAY for the miles you earn by flying or from credit card spending. The only "free" miles come from credit card signup bonuses - and those are free in exactly the same way that toaster you got when you signed up for your checking account was free. The bank is using them as an enticement for you to sign up for their services, hoping that if you take the bait they'll make more money off of you in the long run than they paid out for the bonus miles. And in most cases, they do!
Nov 5, 2013, 4:01 pm
#1467
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: AADULtArer
Posts: 5,693
Totally wrong. Everyone I know who travels a lot internationally are very conscious of how the FF programs work..... and none of them have ever heard of FT. The ones who travel on the corporate nickel all use miles/UGs for personal, family and/or leisure travel.
The airlines can tell you how much a fare change will impact load on next Wednesday's flight to Cleavland but they have no idea how changes will impact revenue per passenger over the next two years.
On top of that, it's at the the margin which makes or breaks a business. Don't know if I'm typical but if 1/100th of 1% of MP members have a spend like mine and leave, US loses $1 billion annually.
The airlines can tell you how much a fare change will impact load on next Wednesday's flight to Cleavland but they have no idea how changes will impact revenue per passenger over the next two years.
On top of that, it's at the the margin which makes or breaks a business. Don't know if I'm typical but if 1/100th of 1% of MP members have a spend like mine and leave, US loses $1 billion annually.
Nov 5, 2013, 4:03 pm
#1468
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Penang, Malaysia
Programs: OZ *G, HHonors Gold, Aclub Plat
Posts: 1,025
Hey at least they posted it before the end of the year. Personally I was on the fence on whether to stay with UA next year, and I haven't fully made a decision, but this makes it easier.
I just now need to figure out which program to switch to for 2014, how to dump my UA miles, and if I should choose a *A program in 2014 so I can credit international trips already booked in Jan to that airline.
I just now need to figure out which program to switch to for 2014, how to dump my UA miles, and if I should choose a *A program in 2014 so I can credit international trips already booked in Jan to that airline.
Bye bye PQD. Bye bye crappy lounges. Bye bye horrible redemption rates.
Hello dAArk side
Being based in AUS, looking forward to the visits in the Amex Centurion lounge in DFW.
Nov 5, 2013, 4:16 pm
#1469
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,849
Nov 5, 2013, 4:20 pm
#1470
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
It's been different prices for different partners, and it has almost certainly stayed that way even as UA has raised the price of miles sold to most (if not all) partners. There used to even be different pricing structures for the sale of miles that varied from partner to partner to some limited extent, but I'm not sure if that is still how it is done for this airline.
In the very best cases, miles/points actually deliver increased returns for customers and burning sooner than later actually results in sub-optimized outcomes for the consumer. Unfortunately, that's not all that common and to some degree it has and continues to require to know how to play this game much better than your average bear to do that. So indeed, the general refrain should be to refrain from hoarding miles/points ... especially when the management/owners of the "loyalty" program have been on a nasty, rapid trend of devaluing the benefits of "loyalty" with abandon.
In the very best cases, miles/points actually deliver increased returns for customers and burning sooner than later actually results in sub-optimized outcomes for the consumer. Unfortunately, that's not all that common and to some degree it has and continues to require to know how to play this game much better than your average bear to do that. So indeed, the general refrain should be to refrain from hoarding miles/points ... especially when the management/owners of the "loyalty" program have been on a nasty, rapid trend of devaluing the benefits of "loyalty" with abandon.