Oct 30, 2013, 3:36 pm
Last edit by: Ocn Vw 1K
UA Insider's reply in posts 247 and 254 of this thread:
Hi everyone,
We recognize the importance and value to you of accessible and transparent information about United flights. It’s a meaningful part of your travel planning, and we are committed to providing useful information that is both accurate and preserves the integrity of United’s data and systems.
While we are committed to data transparency, Expert Flyer has been accessing united.com in an unauthorized fashion to retrieve UA availability. In addition, these activities have consumed significant united.com bandwidth that could otherwise be used by regular consumers. As a result, we had to take this action to protect the security and integrity of United’s systems.
Thank you for your understanding as to why we had to take this action. We continue to look at ways in which we can provide you with timely and useful information (some of which you will see in new releases of our own digital channels) as well as with partners that have authorized access to our data.
Aaron Goldberg
Sr. Manager - Customer Experience Planning
United Airlines
We recognize the importance and value to you of accessible and transparent information about United flights. It’s a meaningful part of your travel planning, and we are committed to providing useful information that is both accurate and preserves the integrity of United’s data and systems.
While we are committed to data transparency, Expert Flyer has been accessing united.com in an unauthorized fashion to retrieve UA availability. In addition, these activities have consumed significant united.com bandwidth that could otherwise be used by regular consumers. As a result, we had to take this action to protect the security and integrity of United’s systems.
Thank you for your understanding as to why we had to take this action. We continue to look at ways in which we can provide you with timely and useful information (some of which you will see in new releases of our own digital channels) as well as with partners that have authorized access to our data.
Aaron Goldberg
Sr. Manager - Customer Experience Planning
United Airlines
UA Blocking Expert Flyer and KVS Access to R and Elite Award Searches.
Mar 28, 2014, 2:52 pm
#841
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Programs: DL-Platinum / AS-PlatPro / Hyatt - Glob / Hilton-Diamond
Posts: 1,573
In my case, I travel on personal travel more than once a year.
And I guess your arbitrary number of 6 is based from UA.com's "+/- 3 days" search feature.
But what if that 6 day time span doesn't return any reasonable flights with R availability? For personal travel it isn't a case of "I fly within x time period at whatever price". If I can't find what I want after searching those 6 days then I have to try again. And again and again.
Yea, customer friendly
Mar 28, 2014, 3:07 pm
#842
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: AADULtArer
Posts: 5,693
Ummm. No.
In my case, I travel on personal travel more than once a year.
And I guess your arbitrary number of 6 is based from UA.com's "+/- 3 days" search feature.
But what if that 6 day time span doesn't return any reasonable flights with R availability? For personal travel it isn't a case of "I fly within x time period at whatever price". If I can't find what I want after searching those 6 days then I have to try again. And again and again.
Yea, customer friendly
In my case, I travel on personal travel more than once a year.
And I guess your arbitrary number of 6 is based from UA.com's "+/- 3 days" search feature.
But what if that 6 day time span doesn't return any reasonable flights with R availability? For personal travel it isn't a case of "I fly within x time period at whatever price". If I can't find what I want after searching those 6 days then I have to try again. And again and again.
Yea, customer friendly
It's possible that UA has designed their systems around this use pattern and not the outlying FT behavior.
Mar 28, 2014, 3:44 pm
#843
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: PDX (wish I was in HNL)
Programs: Platinum
Posts: 1,687
FWIW, here's what a C&D letter from UA looks like: http://media.wandr.me/ProtonCeaseDesist.pdf.
For those who have asked here about the licensing aspect of things I can only share my own personal experiences, but I was told in no uncertain terms that licensing the data was NOT an option. Full stop. Yes, they continue to say in public that a licensing agreement is the only thing needed but United is unwilling to engage in discussions about terms or possibilities. And I've asked multiple times.
I also found it somewhat interesting that they continued to insist that the only way I could have accessed the data was through a united.com URL. That is not what I did. When they asked me to give them more details on what I was doing I respectfully declined. I'm awaiting feedback from my legal counsel about compliance or not based on that aspect of the situation but I expect that part of my tools site to go offline later today pending further discussions with said counsel.
I am not surprised that I received the letter. I'm only slightly disappointed that it took them as long as it did to bother.
But I am very, very disappointed that they continue to insist I'm doing something which I very much am not and that they refuse to have real conversations about the possible licensing of the data despite the public stance so often repeated.
For those who have asked here about the licensing aspect of things I can only share my own personal experiences, but I was told in no uncertain terms that licensing the data was NOT an option. Full stop. Yes, they continue to say in public that a licensing agreement is the only thing needed but United is unwilling to engage in discussions about terms or possibilities. And I've asked multiple times.
I also found it somewhat interesting that they continued to insist that the only way I could have accessed the data was through a united.com URL. That is not what I did. When they asked me to give them more details on what I was doing I respectfully declined. I'm awaiting feedback from my legal counsel about compliance or not based on that aspect of the situation but I expect that part of my tools site to go offline later today pending further discussions with said counsel.
I am not surprised that I received the letter. I'm only slightly disappointed that it took them as long as it did to bother.
But I am very, very disappointed that they continue to insist I'm doing something which I very much am not and that they refuse to have real conversations about the possible licensing of the data despite the public stance so often repeated.
Seth, I want to thank you for your StarAlliance tool. It made searching for award travel that much easier on a recent family trip to MUC. It's disappointing that United is making travel harder for all of us.
Mar 28, 2014, 6:06 pm
#844
Suspended
Join Date: May 2011
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 1,961
The "+/- 3 days" feature doesn't display R availability, at all.
Last edited by iluv2fly; Mar 28, 2014 at 8:29 pm Reason: merge
Mar 28, 2014, 6:16 pm
#845
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Programs: UA 1K 3 Million/ex-many year GS, AA PLT/2 Mil, AS MVPG, HH Dia, Starwood Life Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,401
It really boggles the mind to see a company be so at war with its customers. Here you have EF and KVS as folks who have essentially done market research for UA in terms of identifying what a class of customers (which includes a non-trivial number of MVF and HVF) would like in terms of web capability and instead of doing something useful with that info (like actually improving their website) they shut down the useful additions. I wonder if UA management will finally be happy if they drive off all their valuable customers and have only to deal with once a year tourists. It is truly hard to understand their mental model of their business but they sure seem to be in denial about what would attract and retain customers. In all my years I really can't think of another company that has been so antagonistic toward the customer base - and with such a lousy base product set they are trying to sell.
Mar 28, 2014, 8:34 pm
#847
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: WAS
Programs: AA PLT, Honors Diamond, Global Entry
Posts: 477
Verizon Wireless is a downright pleasure to deal with. Comcast can be painful to interact with on the phone, but the actual service is quite good 99% of the time. I've subscribed to both companies' services for nearly a decade and in most respects things have gotten better, not worse. Would that UA could say the same.
Mar 28, 2014, 8:54 pm
#848
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,616
I wonder if UA management will finally be happy if they drive off all their valuable customers and have only to deal with once a year tourists. It is truly hard to understand their mental model of their business but they sure seem to be in denial about what would attract and retain customers. In all my years I really can't think of another company that has been so antagonistic toward the customer base - and with such a lousy base product set they are trying to sell.
Verizon Wireless is a downright pleasure to deal with. Comcast can be painful to interact with on the phone, but the actual service is quite good 99% of the time. I've subscribed to both companies' services for nearly a decade and in most respects things have gotten better, not worse. Would that UA could say the same.
Mar 28, 2014, 9:00 pm
#849
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Programs: UA 1K 3 Million/ex-many year GS, AA PLT/2 Mil, AS MVPG, HH Dia, Starwood Life Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,401
I wouldn't call ATT my cell carrier) great but at the same time they don't go out of their way to antagonize me. Also, my long term trend with them has been better services at same or lower price. On the rare occasions that I have had service issues they have been pretty good, even to allowing retro changing of plans to improve cost when I unexpectedly had to use the phone outside the US. Comcast, my cable carrier, has been excellent on the Internet side (though expensive due to a total lack of competition) responding very promptly on the few occasions where service was lost. Their TV side is hopeless at the first line contact point but once past that you actually find competent people. Their biggest issue for me is their total cluelessness about their own pricing structure - call them twice and you will get at least 3 different price quotes for the same thing. So, yup, UA occupies a niche all its own in terms of customer relations - and it isn't a niche any company should want to aspire to.
Mar 28, 2014, 9:16 pm
#850
Suspended
Join Date: May 2011
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 1,961
I send a lot of money to both Verizon and Comcast and neither one of them has ever given me a free upgrade to a higher level of service than I'm paying for. Not even once!
Mar 28, 2014, 9:30 pm
#851
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.997MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,859
Comcast has given me 2 years of reduced fees when I called to drop some extra services. Now the fee might return at the end of those two years but I can call again or actually drop the premium service. Got the hint to that from another internet forum and my impression it is not uncommon. Much like credit card providers -- bonus / fee reductions are there for the asking. Seems sort of similiar to UA upgrades.
Mar 29, 2014, 2:02 am
#852
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 11,468
Hey guys, let's keep focused on the subject of this thread!
Thx!
Thx!
Mar 29, 2014, 5:59 am
#853
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, UA Nobody, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,372
I presume that because these are being offered as commercial services rather than consumer websites they cannot gain SLAPP protection? Would there be any way to bring them under that umbrella?
Fios used to give me free months of SHO and HBO from time to time, AT&T have given me loyalty discounts. My carriers in the UK for both cellphone and TV have given me upgraded service or reducing prices for loyalty.
Seth - have you considered moving to a friendlier jurisdiction with a locally incorporated company? Alternatively could you build your tool as a browser extension and "set it free"?
Thanks for the tool, it was great while it lasted.
I also found it somewhat interesting that they continued to insist that the only way I could have accessed the data was through a united.com URL. That is not what I did. When they asked me to give them more details on what I was doing I respectfully declined. I'm awaiting feedback from my legal counsel about compliance or not based on that aspect of the situation but I expect that part of my tools site to go offline later today pending further discussions with said counsel.
Thanks for the tool, it was great while it lasted.
Mar 29, 2014, 6:55 am
#854
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
I have considered both. Neither has happened yet, as you can see.
Mar 29, 2014, 7:29 am
#855
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PHL
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, Marriott Gold, IHG Platinum, Raddison Platinum, Avis Presidents Club
Posts: 5,271
This process takes me about 30min sometimes. I assume KVS does nearly exactly the same thing. Possibly less clicks (using less of UA resources).
I agree that this only needs to be done for vacationers. If you are travelling on business your dates are usually highly restricted
Last edited by eng3; Mar 29, 2014 at 7:46 am