Jun 29, 2017, 2:01 pm

FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlawrence85

'Direct' flights are not the same as non-stop flights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_flight

"A direct flight in the aviation industry is any flight between two points by an airline with no change in flight numbers, which may include a stop over at an intermediate point."

Non-Stop -- A flight between two airports with no stops / no other airport involved.

Direct flight -- a flight booked as a flight between two airports BUT will involve a scheduled connection (landing/departure) at another airport. The same plane may or may not be used for each segment of the flight. {On UA, generally does not involve the same aircraft and may use a different type of airplane}

Why done

So that the direct flight shows as a competitive option vs non-stops in third party online booking sites.
Conservation of flight numbers, due to shortage of 4-digit flight numbers, this allows for more flights without using more flight numbers

~~For UA, mileage credit is the same for a non-stop and a direct flight. You "lose" out of the extra flight miles.~~
With the change from credit being based on fare and not flight miles, there is no difference in earning method from direct flight vs non-stop
On PQFs, each segment counts as 1 PQF -- this is a change from how PQS was done
~~Possible resolution is to see if the direct flight can be split into the separate flight segments -- some times this is possible, other times it is not.~~

There can be seat assignment issues on direct flights especially if aircraft type is different.
Upgrades will not clear on direct flights in advance unless upgrade space is available on both flights. Gate upgrades will process based on the individual flights.

Related thread
Direct Flight Seat Selection Bug?

Selecting Seats/Upgrade Issues on Second Leg of "Direct" Flight Itinerary

Solution for seat assignment missing on direct flight

Upgrade Individual Flights on direct flight

Direct flights -- Why? What about Mileage Credit?

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Jul 3, 2013, 3:49 am

#31

lhrsfo

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jbcarioca

The two aircraft carry the same flight number. "Direct" means "same flight number" and nothing else.

......

I understand the frustration people find with the terminology. I am not trying to defend the use either, but only point out that as was said upthread, the practice predates airplanes when it was used in railroads.

Thus, it seems a bit harsh to me to call that dishonest just because many people have forgotten what the words mean if they ever knew. It is sad that many airline employees and travel agents now don't know the difference themselves.

It would be easier if the two words could continue to be used in their original meanings. It seems useful to me to have the distinction, not least because of sector counts and direct vs segment mileage credit. For taht reason I rarely book direct flights when I can book connecting non-stops instead. Only if the direct is cheaper do I consider it.

Travelling on railroads is fundamentally different from travelling on airplanes. When I take BART from San Francisco to the airport, I get on a direct train which is not non-stop. However, the stops are very brief and I simply sit there. If I travel from Oakland to SFO, however, the train is not direct, in that I have to change trains to reach the airport. That is simple usage and the meaning is consistent with the common usage, and understanding, of the word "direct".

The common usage of the word does not extend to stops where you have to change planes and the great majority of people would not understand it that way. People expect a flight not to have to stop, unless it is marketed as a flight where you are going via somewhere. A flight from FLL to TPA via EWR is quite simply not direct in any common usage and would not be understood as such - that's why it's misleading. The airline knows that it will be misunderstood, yet does not care about the consequences. The sooner truth in advertising laws start covering this situation, the better.

Also the excuse that UA is running out of flight numbers is lame. They can, and do, use 4 digit numbers. They don't run 9,999 flights per day, even with code-shares (another good bit of misleading advertising), so they have plenty of flight numbers; it's just that they don't choose to use them.

Jul 3, 2013, 4:48 am

#32

sbm12

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lhrsfo

Also the excuse that UA is running out of flight numbers is lame. They can, and do, use 4 digit numbers. They don't run 9,999 flights per day, even with code-shares (another good bit of misleading advertising), so they have plenty of flight numbers; it's just that they don't choose to use them.

Yes and no. They have a few available, but not "plenty" as you suggest. I am sure there is a reason the couple hundred are still in reserve.

Quote:

1 - 1299 United Airlines
1340 - 1344 ExpressJet-Extra Section
1368 - 1369 Colgan Air - Extra Section
1400 - 1744 United Airlines
1745 - 1764 Extra Sections
1900 - 2299 US Airways Express Codeshare
2300 - 3249 US Airways Codeshare
3250 - 3254 Commutair Extra Section
3255 - 3274 UAX - ExpressJet - CO Contract
3275 - 3294 Skywest Extra Sections
3325 - 3329 Trans States Extra Sections
3330 - 3434 UAX-Trans States
3435 - 3439 Shuttle America Extra Sections
3440 - 3584 UAX-Shuttle America
3585 - 3590 UAX-CommutAir DH3 - CO Contract
3591 - 3604 UAX-CommutAir DH2 - CO Contract
3605 - 3714 UAX-Go Jet
3715 - 3717 Go Jet Extra Sections
3720 - 3724 Mesa Extra Sections
3725 - 3804 UAX-Mesa
3805 - 3854 UAX-Expressjet
3855 - 3904 UAX-Republic - CO Contract
3970 - 3973 Silver Airways - Extra Sections
3975 - 4045 UAX- Silver Airways
4046 - 4059 UAX- Silver Airways - IAD
4060 - 4072 UAX - Silver Airways - CLE
4073 - 4074 UAX - Silver Airways - IAD
4075 - 4084 UAX - Silver Airways - CLE
4085 - 4714 UAX - ExpressJet - CO Contract
4715 - 4769 UAX-Chautauqua - CO Contract
4770 - 4834 UAX-CommutAir DH2 - CO Contract
4835 - 4859 UAX-CommutAir DH3 - CO Contract
4860 - 4868 UAX-ExpressJet - CO Contract
4869 - 4937 UAX-Republic - CO Contract
4938 - 4940 UAX-Republic - Extra Sections
4965 - 4974 UAX- Skywest Airlines
4975 - 4999 UAX-Chautauqua - CO Contract
5000 - 5021 UAX-CommutAir DH2 - CO Contract
5022 - 5037 UAX- Trans States
5038 - 5082 UAX - Cape Air GUM
5083 - 5083 Cape Air - Extra Section
5085 - 5122 Cape Air (Carribean)
5123 - 5155 UAX-Shuttle America
5156 - 5223 UAX-Skywest
5224 - 5269 UAX- Skywest CRJ
5270 - 5289 UAX- Trans States
5290 - 5659 UAX-Skywest
5660 - 5684 UAX - ExpressJet - CO Contract
5685 - 5774 UAX-ExpressJet - former ASA
5775 - 5784 ExpressJet - former ASA Extra Sections
5785 - 5809 UAX-ExpressJet - CO Contract
5810 - 5899 UAX-Expressjet
5900 - 6189 UAX-ExpressJet - CO Contract
6190 - 6539 UAX- Skywest Airlines
6540 - 6544 UAX - Bus Service - EWR-ABE
6545 - 6548 UAX - Bus Service - IAH-BPT
6549 - 6628 Aeromar
6629 - 6707 Amtrak
6708 - 6748 Austrian Codeshare
6749 - 6828 Air New Zealand
6829 - 6848 LOT-Polish Airlines
6871 - 6872 Cargo Extra Section - sUA Equipment
6873 - 6873 Cargo Extra Section - sCO Equipment
6889 - 7018 SAS - Scandinavian Airlines
7019 - 7038 Blue One
7039 - 7123 Copa Airlines
7124 - 7323 Great Lakes Codeshare
7324 - 7423 TAM Airlines
7424 - 7471 TACA
7472 - 7487 LACSA
7488 - 7523 AVIANCA
7524 - 7623 Air China
7624 - 7661 Aer Lingus
7662 - 7663 Aer Lingus - UA IAD-MAD, MAD-IAD
7664 - 7668 Aer Lingus
7769 - 7788 Turkish Airlines
7789 - 7878 Hawaiian Airlines
7879 - 7914 IslandAir
7915 - 7944 South African Airways
7945 - 7974 Qatar Airways
7975 - 8014 Asiana
8015 - 8714 Air Canada
8715 - 9589 Lufthansa Airlines
9590 - 9639 TAP-Air Portugal
9640 - 9739 ANA-All Nippon
9740 - 9759 UA Extra Section
9760 - 9811 Swiss
9812 - 9814 CO/UA Express Extra Section/RP
9815 - 9834 Jet Airways
9835 - 9854 Aegean Air
9855 - 9868 Egypt Air
9883 - 9899 EVA Air
9900 - 9998 Brussels Airlines

Jul 3, 2013, 7:34 am

#33

mre5765

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Quote:

Originally Posted by fastair

I don't know if the Orient Express was marketed as "direct", but with a single name, it seems like they were marketing it as a single product. It currently (and throughout most of it's history) is made up of numerous lines and equipment. I was on a leg from Bucharest to Istanbul, and they had to change locomotives in Bulgaria (same passenger cars though) and that was still considered the same line (as opposed to where you actually switch trains along the way at other points.)

Iow "direct" does mean something completely different than its original meaning from passenger rail.

If only commercial aircraft could be built to a train model. Variable number of passenger capsules coupled with a variable number of engines coupled with a single cockpit capsule. This would produce dynamic capacity, which would bring profitability to the airline industry.

Jul 3, 2013, 7:50 am

#34

alex_b

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lhrsfo

The common usage of the word does not extend to stops where you have to change planes and the great majority of people would not understand it that way. People expect a flight not to have to stop, unless it is marketed as a flight where you are going via somewhere. A flight from FLL to TPA via EWR is quite simply not direct in any common usage and would not be understood as such - that's why it's misleading. The airline knows that it will be misunderstood, yet does not care about the consequences. The sooner truth in advertising laws start covering this situation, the better.

But do they actually still use the word "direct" anywhere? Sure they display as one flight with a "Stop in IAH for 2 hours" in at the bottom of the box, but I can't remember seeing the word direct used for a long while except on FT or with phone agents.

Sep 8, 2013, 6:45 pm

#35

colpuck

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Direct flights -- Why? What about Mileage Credit?

For those that don't know a direct flight is marketed AAA-BBB but there is a stop in the middle so it is actually AAA-XXX-BBB.

Is there anyway to work around to to getting full miles on a direct flight? It's a difference about 650 miles.

Sep 8, 2013, 6:57 pm

#36

wildbill412007

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Quote:

Originally Posted by colpuck

you can ticket it as AAA-XXX-BBB and get full miles. Of course it will cost more. I suppose if the 650 miles is important, you could compare the difference to accelerator for the AAA-BBB ticketing and buy whichever was cheaper.

Sep 8, 2013, 7:02 pm

#37

PV_Premier

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ticket it, call late (to get HNL) and request segments to be split. i say get HNL because many reps are now leery of splitting direct flights. if they refuse, cancel under the 24hr policy if 650 miles is more important than the presumably cheaper base fare on the direct option.

Sep 8, 2013, 7:07 pm

#38

colpuck

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ddrost1

Will they refare the split?

Sep 8, 2013, 7:22 pm

#39

golfingboy

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Quote:

Originally Posted by colpuck

Will they refare the split?

Shouldn't, IME, only difference will be the increase in taxes. You can use the upgrade issue as your logic for requesting the split. Been a while since I did that.

Sep 8, 2013, 7:29 pm

#40

sbm12

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Quote:

Originally Posted by golfingboy

Shouldn't, IME, only difference will be the increase in taxes. You can use the upgrade issue as your logic for requesting the split. Been a while since I did that.

I typically use seat assignments rather than upgrades in such situation.

Unless things have changed they're supposed to split the segments without objection. There have also been some reports that when the flights move to gate control they split on their own and that "fixes" things but I'm not sure I'd want to test that.

Sep 8, 2013, 7:41 pm

#41

cranky1K

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Quote:

Originally Posted by sbm12

The segments may split if a CPU comes through for one segment earlier than T-24. I have also had segments split when under gate control but not sure if that happens consistently and wouldn't want to take the risk.

Sep 8, 2013, 7:48 pm

#42

PV_Premier

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i have never had segments split under gate control. my usual strategy is to pursue the seating preference avenue to get these changes made. i am about 90% successful with this strategy.

Sep 30, 2013, 11:31 am

#43

Hankerin

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Mileage - same flight number with change of planes

First off, it's not really that important but I do find it "interesting." On a couple of occasions, I have found myself booked on a particular flight number with a stopover and obvious aircraft change (first leg on a 75, second a 319 for example). Oddly on my most recent experience, I'm credited 1,465 miles from San Francisco to Tulsa as if it were a non-stop flight - in fact it shows up as SFO-TUL in my account. The return with two different flight numbers nets me 1,508 miles. Of course, I'm not going to quibble over 40 miles - the real issue was trying to change my assigned seats. I couldn't do it online. Neither could GS. They got an IT guy on the phone with us and still couldn't do anything. And clearing First was a mess, too. I couldn't change seats once I had cleared either. I cannot for the life of me understand why they feel a need to recycle flight numbers when there's a change of planes.

Sep 30, 2013, 11:38 am

#44

scruffair

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Hankerin

This is a common issue that is discussed all the time. My solution is to call up and have them split the reservation into multiple ones. Then each one is seen as individual and you earn the full EQM's/PQM's. Also then you can choose seats, upgrade individually, etc.