edcho

They have an awesome product, customer service, etc that puts US carriers to shame. It's night and day....

IMO -- FFPs are the only thing left that can garner loyalty (and rev) even when there are better products out there. Without FFPs, then legacy carriers are screwed in the enginehole as they are pretty much no different (or worse) than LLCs. There is a reason I fly UA instead of SQ or AA instead of QF.

FlyWorld

I am seeing, generally, higher prices now than I've ever seen before on TPAC and TATL out of SFO but I find that UA domestic prices are what they've typically been.

Is it possible that they've overlaid a CO strategy on the pricing structure recently - ramping up international fares so the domestic/international split ends up being consistent with what you describe?

FlyWorld

How do you know this?

halls120

United's 2012 operational debacle was a self-inflicted wound brought about by a management team you regard as "savvy," while in reality, they screwed up a boarding process that worked, started moving aircraft around without having sufficient spare parts pre-positioned, and didn't have enough crew to fly the flights they scheduled. And you call that a "savvy" management team?

Did DL and NW have an operational melt down when they merged? No. Of course, they had the foresight to make sure they had unified work groups much sooner in the merger process.

fly18725

Bingo. For long-term success and to attract the customers that carry their own weight, US airlines need to compete better on product, not tossing more freebies to compensate for failing to run a sustainable business for many years.

DL and NW's merger was smoother, but far from perfect and I agree UA's reservation system cut-over did not go well. I was caught in long lines and unacceptable hold times with everyone else.

Personally, I don't think making mistakes means you're stupid or a failure. The measure is in how you respond to your mistakes and move forward.

edcho

Except on the UADo in November + via videos + interviews, they said that they aren't really investing (much) into their hard products as they believe that the cost isn't worth the benefits. Instead they are sinking their $ into CS... which I don't mind and i've seen improvement in this area. Unfortunately, it's not even close to the levels of foreign carriers are at nor where it should be compared to most US legacy carriers (i.e. why I book AA right now).

FlyingNut724

And what brilliant thing has UA management done to respond to the mistakes they've made? This still have close to the lowest on-time percentage of any of the major carriers. All the problems that have been cited around here for the past 18 months still exist. Oh, and their revenue growth and profitability pale in comparison to their competitors.

From my perspective, UA has made mistakes, keeps making mistakes and isn't really moving forward compared to its competitors.

EWR764

Hard to say, but international capacity has been coming out of the system somewhat aggressively for about the last 18 months, mostly over the Atlantic. If we are seeing higher fares in general, then the capacity cuts are having the desired effect. DL and UA have specifically and repeatedly mentioned that capacity cuts in certain international regions over the last year or so were successful, so I suspect this may be the case.

Regarding SFO, with VX expanding, the domestic market is as competitive as it has been in quite some time, so perhaps their presence has been putting downward pressure on pricing in overlapping markets. Domestic markets are more price-elastic too.

halls120

Where did I say they were stupid or a failure? I just don't buy your constant "savvy" appellation. Once they demonstrate the ability to return UA to a consistent operation - and make it a single airline, not two subsidiaries operating as one brand - maybe they will meet your label.

exerda

And yet UA seems by and large only able to continue making more mistakes. "Savvy" management, indeed. The boarding process alone is a perfect example of Jeffy's and the rest of management's pigheadedness and inability to admit or even recognize they're making mistakes.

edcho

I wonder how much $$$ they are spending to deploy those gates systemwide...

fly18725

If you don't like the adjectives I picked, you can suggest other antonyms for savvy. I thought my label of savvy was apropo since UA and other US carriers are largely led by management teams who understand how to run a business. Are they perfect? Heck no. There are a lot of things i wished UA did differently. But the management teams smarter than the management teams at legacy carriers in the past.

FlyWorld

Good points, and in fact, the domestic routes where I've noted cheap prices also happen to be routes where VX is competing. They don't fly to many places, but they chose their markets well.

As for international, I'm seeing the difference - very tangible.

Kacee

Int'l fares have been consistently higher out of SFO than just about any other UA hub for the past several months and certain int'l upgrades out of SFO are described as some of the toughest in the system (HKG, FRA). I suspect this is a combination of a red-hot Bay Area economy and the near total lack of int'l competition from other US carriers. By contrast, on the domestic side, UA has to contend with VX and WN (which has an especially large presence at OAK), not to mention AA and DL hub traffic.

FlyingNut724

I believe domestic prices have increased significantly in DEN. Price to ORD for a trip in two weeks was $700+. The price on Southwest was $250.

Similarly, prices this week between DEN and PDX are now $450-700 for a trip is three weeks out. F9 and WN are between $280-380.

It will be interesting to see the next set of financial numbers to learn whether UA is actually getting people to pay the significantly higher fares in enough volume to make up for people booking away to other carriers. I've been booking other carriers more than any other time in my life. I can't believe this situation will be a good thing for UA's financials.

The many changes at UA have fundamentally changed the way I book travel. In the past I'd go to the UA website exclusively. Now, I start at Kayak. If the plane, schedule or price is better than UA. UA won't get the booking.