UA-NYC

I don't think, for the most part, anyone in group 1 has to worry about OH space. Even group 2, you should be okay (though i know row 7 dwellers might have issues).

I do think the bigger issue generally is they took a relatively easygoing, nice experience (PMUA boarding process) and turned it into a massive CF that their quarterly boarding changes do nothing to address, since "all elites/Premier Access/CC holders over the blue carpet" is the clear crux of the issue.

Fredd

Yup.

sfogate

So the issue isn't all about the overhead bin space but the lack of a separate boarding group for the CC holders. (That CC holders board after all Elites.)

UA-NYC

No - as I said, overhead space seems like it may become an issue for group 2 for some flights. Group 1, probably less so.

Bigger picture - what was a seamless process that kept elites/HVFs satisfied (and led to quick boarding times and ultimate on time rates) is now a total CF. I don't think anyone enjoys the time from T-40 to T-25 now. 1st world problem? Sure. But it wasn't even a problem pre-3/3.

abaheti

My wife was in the middle of Group 2 and had trouble finding space above our row this weekend when the process was messy, and I definitely noticed it as more of an issue towards the front of the plane vs the back (presumably because people in Group 2 are more likely to be in E+).

I will say, though, that Group 2 did fine on the flight where they had the lanes and the agents enforced the groups. So, yes, we are seeing the new process as it is practiced, not as it was designed.

My issue is overhead space near my seat. Personally, if they assure me of that, they can board me last. Although taking 45 minutes vs 25 minutes, and watching the craziness at gate and on plane is not fun.

SCAFlyer

In the bygone era of the Red Carpet and 2 aisle aircraft, as a Premier Executive in the Economy lane, I never had a problem with overhead space near my seat.

With this new 5 lane boarding process and many single aisle aircraft, I have been having problems getting an overhead near my seat (usually in the 3rd to 7th row of E+) especially when getting off a connecting flight.

sfogate

I'm getting a better understanding of the issue.

Now that we have merged, the amount of Elites has doubled (just guessing as to the increased amount) and all are seated in E+, fighting for the same overhead space. No one in this group wants to check their bags in unless we can guarantee that your bags will arrive, at the carousel, within 20 minutes.

Basically I don't see how this issue of who boards in what group (2-3) will solve this problem since the problem is carryon space on the A319/A320/737.

jackal

I've asked several times in this thread and no one has given me a clear answer: just exactly how did UA's boarding process result in faster boarding?

Isn't it the same WilMA process now as pmUA had?

Interesting to note that AS's boarding process (which is horribly enforced, as AS employees are culturally afraid to challenge customers) calls for "First Class, MVP Gold, and Row 6" in the first boarding group, ahead of MVPs and partner elites, specifically for this reason. Perhaps UA should consider moving those in rows without underseat storage up to Group 1.

Again, though, it sounds like people are talking across each other here. I'm going to amend my previous analysis of this thread, from:

to:

-Time it takes to board
-Making elites feel special
-Making sure elites have access to overhead storage space
-Dealing with gate lice

Based on the posts made today (within the last 15 hours), I count:

-Time it takes to board: 5 posts
-Making elites feel special: 8 posts
-Making sure elites have access to overhead storage space: 5 posts
-Dealing with gate lice: 0 posts

As for the first item: no one has yet (in 1,524 posts) been able to successfully explain why pmUA's boarding times were faster, other than complain about everyone having too many carry-on bags due to checked baggage fees (it ain't goin' away, folks).

As for the last item: the new chutes appeared to work for the purposes of corralling the gate lice, at least in my experience this past week. So, maybe we can check that one off the list as solved.

As for the middle two items: although some people (me included) like the ego booster of being part of a very short line waiting to board, I'm fine with whatever works to get the plane off the ground the fastest as long as those who deserve nearby overhead bins (elites in descending order plus those in bulkhead seats without underseat storage) get it. If mixing 1Ks and Plats speeds things along without compromising 1Ks' overhead storage space, then what's the big deal? And if there are very few non-elite credit card holders (as in, 5 per flight, which is the number I get the impression is correct based on posts in this thread), what's the big deal with mixing them in with Silvers?

Four different problems are being discussed in this thread with too many people talking across each other...and no real new information given or solutions proposed in the last 1,400 posts, just a rehashing of the same old same old.

FriendlySkies

I'm fairly sure that several of us have explained how the pmUA procedure was better, while not discussing bag issues, etc. But I suppose it's just tough to really describe/understand if you didn't fly pmUA extensively before the merger..

rwmiller56

You forgot about the Golds. Seems like lots of people are forgetting about the Golds in these discussions. Golds are the ones being downgraded the most as a result this change. We used to board ahead of silvers and CC holders.

For me, it has nothing to do with feeling elite. It has everything to do with availability of overhead bin space. Because of this change, I will now tend to gate lice to get a spot in the front of BG2. Whereas, before this change, I never used to gate lice.

WhiteOut

as a regional domestic flyer, pgold, i wind up flying the 170 seat 3a (e+) quite often. if i dont lice my way to the front of g2, i'm swimming upstream to find space for my small roller (small enough for bin, too big for underseat). the issue for me isnt retrieval at baggage claim as much as it is connections. quite often at IAD im coming in at the furthest end of D and connecting at the opposite furthest end of A. plenty of times i wish i would have worn a jogging suit instead of a business suit for client meetings later that day. Or at ORD I'm coming in at the end of B and connecting thru the furthest end of E/F.

if i hang back and chill, i'm checking or swimming...hence my licing. this is not just me having anxiety about something that *might* happen...i've lived it too many times to leave it to chance now...

so now, if g2-3 is even larger, it only further drives me to lice-dom.

btw -- ive been last on a 319/320 connection due to the scenario described above, and as many have stated, i *should* be able to throw my roller in the bin near my seat...but guess what...in some cases i have had to be the guy who starts pointing to small (underseat) bags (with the FA nearby) and asking people 'Is this yours?'. <dont dare make eye contact with me! if you do your tiny bag is going under your seat and my roller is replacing it in the bin, and i'm making the FA my BFF -- you'll lose the argument.>

do i really want to be 'that guy'? absolutely not! but id rather get my connection than worry about whether someone who doesn't follow the FA instructions likes me or not...

so for me, these new boarding groups will either keep my experience the same or worse. I see no improvement as i will still have to lice the g2 queue to be near the top of that group. i'm happy to be proven wrong and will gladly post here if so, but it stands to reason if g2-3 is now *larger*, then the boarding/bin experience will not improve, particularly for those toward the mid/end of those lines.

jackal

OK, there are a few posts that kind of touched on it. Namely, I recall one person commenting that 1Ps and 2Ps were pre-staged in the second lane. But I still don't see how that made the actual boarding process faster. The slow-down isn't at the podium where BPs are scanned; it's at the bottom of the jetway as people are getting on the plane. It's the same number of people, in roughly the same order, getting on the same plane.

Or, put more simply:

The current system is:

-A bunch of elites (and a couple of credit card holders)
-Window
-Middle
-Aisle

The pmUA system was:

-A bunch of elites
-Window
-Middle
-Aisle

Why the vast difference in speed?

steve64

Personally, I'm with UA-NYC on this one ...

For me, it's the mass of people pushing and shoving from the very start of boarding.
As a 1K who is on an M-UP fare about 20% of the time and get CPU a decent majority of the time on other fares, I'm usually in First. One of the things I liked about the upgrades was the ability to (more often than not) just simply walk on-board and sit down. When in Coach, the process was usually still ok for 1K. But now, even in First, I find myself boarding with a mob. Even something as simple as a Pre-departure beverage is hard to do now. True, it's a minor issue compared to the world's problems, but it's still one of the many de-valuations to UA's product.

The new boarding process adds to the problem. Too many folks in "Group 1". First Class doesn't even get any priority.
But I don't think that's the root issue. Here are my thoughts on why it's become a mess...

1) Along with the now larger Group 1, you have all the passengers who have learned over time that Gate Agents (for the most part) don't enforce the boarding ... you can board anytime you dang well please, so they do.

2) Add to that is the (smaller group of) CC holders who think that their privilege is being able to board at the first call (GS/Military) ... very few realize that the CC privilege is simply a lower group number than they would've had otherwise.

3) Passengers just arriving to the gate or didn't hear/understand the announcement, see the mob so assume all groups have been called and they join in.
A lot of announcements are misunderstood because many Gate Agents don't include the flight # and destination in each announcement. Ma-n-Pa Kettle hear (from the gate next to theirs), "Now boarding Group 6" so they get up and join the Group 1 mob at their gate.

4) Legit Group 2 folks see the mob growing larger and fear that if they hold back then they'll be among the last to board. So they join the mob.
Or the group 2 folks who hold back a little, thinking they'll be the first of Group 2 to board and any Group 1s can slip thru ... but the Group 1s think these "early" Group 2s are just part of the Group 1 mob

5) This strange (IMHO) mentality some folks have that they MUST stand on this red/blue carpet before boarding. I've seen folks standing on the carpet before the inbound plane is even at the gate. NO groups have been called for boarding, so NO ONE should be standing in any boarding lane. All the Gate Agt has to do is pick up the PA and announce "good afternoon" and the count of folks on the carpet will swell. Very few of these folks walk on-board when the GS/Military Group is called.

Steve - ex-DFW Gate AAgent from about 20 years ago

SCAFlyer

I'll be the one standing right next to you! :-)

exerda

For a while, I felt like it was a difference in pax philosophy (for want of a better term) coupled with the FAs between the two airlines. E.g. I'd fly a PMCO a/c, and would watch pax toss bags in the first open overhead and walk to the back. Or maybe the lower seat pitch made it harder for pax to get into rows and settled quickly (as PMUA had E+ and PMCO did not). FA instructions seemed to contribute to this as well.

I don't think that accounts for the big difference, though--and we're talking 15-20 minutes per flight, typically. (Nor does it account for the fact that the Kayakers with no status should behave similarly regardless of the metal--it should have been more a difference in process than in pax.)

What I think now is that PMUA did a good job of filtering pax onto the plane in a better order. 1Ks, despite being often cited by grumblings in the boarding process threads as being "the worst carry-on abusers" were typically well-versed in the drill and got on board and settled very quickly regardless of where they were on the plane--first or E+. Likewise, the 1Ps were pretty seasoned and also settled in quickly. Plus, some hung back longer than they do today, where the general scrum at the gate encourages them to try getting on board sooner. Now, you have a broader mix of pax at each stage--1Ks and Plats at the same time, then Gold, Silver, and everyone else who is "priority" in any way. This is a more heterogeneous mix of pax and experiences.