colpuck

No you wont. I can't quote your reply because you embedded them in my quote, but I'll do my best.

People in this thread are disappointed because they chose to be disappointed, not because they are reacting to any real change. The Unicon merger was forecasted in 2007, some four years before it actually happened. The people on the CO board knew it was coming, it was only a matter of time.

When the merger was announced it only took the briefest of looks at the OnePass and MileagePlus to realize there were going to be substantial changes to both programs. Even more so with the MM programs, both loyalty programs had vastly different benefits and ways of earning those benefits. To think that nothing was going to change and that "[people] will receive your benefits as you always have, including two cr-1s for life" was pure lunacy and representative of some sort of denial that rises to an almost clinical level. While some benefits were to be added some were clearly going to be taken away. Fine complain away, but it has been nine months since the new program went into effect. Back in May someone even filed a lawsuit over this. Seriously?!?!? Everyone knew change was coming, pithy website comments not withstanding. Disappointed fine, but there are real issues and unfortunately this one has little merit.

I care nothing about the MM program, and I see it going away in the next few years. However, I am forced into caring when it gets in the way of achievable change.

ocn2ocn

Thanks for your kind words, we're certainly on the same wavelength. Everyone has their right to be disappointed but its especially interesting when the airline seems to be acting against its own best interest. Under the old system, UA was able to generate approximately the same level of revenue through paid upgrades without offending any of their customers.

As you can imagine, the 1.9MM included taking a lot of inconvenient connections when other competing carriers offered nonstops on the same route. I assume Colpuck would just consider me a damn fool once the airline changed the rules in the 9th inning. Shame on me for concentrating my flying for the last 20 years with one airline. I guess loyalty really is a one way street!

Why don't you understand the concept of a partially earned (or 95% earned) benefit. I'm not talking about a legal or moral obligation. I'm talking about the airline setting expectations and deliberately not living up to its end of the bargain. Yes this is a business -- but its an airline that theoretically should be striving to earn the loyalty of its passengers and cultivate repeat business by making people feel that they are appreciated at some level. This is not a used car dealer profiting from bait and switch tactics.

Doesn't a person who went out of their way for 2 decades to concentrate their flying (even in the face of more convenient alternatives on numerous occasions) have a right to expect that the airline would want to honor its prior commitment -- even if the airline doesn't have a legal obligation to do so strictly speaking? If enough of us are very disappointed and eventually vote with our feet, doesn't this turn out to be a bad business decision in the end?

Why do you feel that its ok to hold the airline to what amounts to a clear mistake? Do you really feel that its appropriate to obtain the benefit of a premium class transpacific trip for 4 miles when the airline is clearly having problems integrating its technology post-merger? I understand your disappointment and agree that you should be compensated somehow -- but I really think its extreme to try to hold the airline to providing you with a windfall. Isn't there some lesser level of compensation that might be more fair and appropriate?

On your second point, I think you raise a valid argument about picking our battles. Clearly our voice is stronger and taken far more seriously when we are consistent and act in unison. Open debate -- without lashing out in personal attacks -- in order to identify the biggest issues that are most important to the largest group is a constructive exercise. And, as you say, we have to be realistic in our collective expectations. This is a good suggestion but only works when everyone is permitted to express themselves openly and we are able to convey to the airline in some credible format the position of the majority. Much better to try to reach consensus on a realistic and reasonable agenda rather than to fight each other on this forum. Everyone should focus their energy in this regard to see if some progress could be made with the airline on certain points in the program.

cesco.g

Interesting observation to explore. Are there any numbers/data to support this point?

ocn2ocn

While I don't have any date, if you think about the logic of this, the mix of revenue and free upgrades was probably not very different: Under the old system, some upgrades were free (based upon earning 4 500 mile upgrades for every 10,000 miles flown) and some were paid (based upon purchasing "books" of 4 500 mile upgrades to supplement the earned ones). For those of us who flew longer distances like transcons, we had to regularly buy books to supplement the earned upgrades. If you value the paid upgrades at $50 per pop or $250 for a 2500 mile transcon, its pretty close to what UA is commanding for paid upgrades under the "new" system. Probably a similar mix of paid vs. fee upgrades as well.

The two main advantages of the old system were (i) the priority by status was very predictable as there was no such thing as cash upgraders "cutting the line" and (ii) nobody was offended or disappointed as you either paid up or passed the opportunity to the next person in line who was willing to pay up. Under the current system of "free" upgrades, they are only actually free after UA is finished squeezing whatever dollars they can out of last minute cash upgrades. This wasn't necessary when they were able to get revenue from their elites under the old system.

Another advantage of the old system for those of us who fly transcons: the old system applied to the JFK-LAX/SFO PS flights because the upgrades yielded revenue to UA. Under the new system, the PS service is excluded because UA doesn't want to give C-class seats away for free.

pigx5

So what?
Now United is smart enough to change the rules after you purchase your 4 miles ticket and just like they change the rules for LIFETIME BENEFITS.
It's not UA's business to keep you playing this 4 miles game and they think the change you will like.

I don't personally think you are over or under entitled. There are simply the
rules that you wish UA to ignore.

Budley

Yes I agree with everything you have said.

It would appear some posters are just rusted on to CO.

They should get over it, and sit at the back of a 737-900.

colpuck

It's pretty simple when the requirement is 2mm and one either has it or they don't. It was clear from the start of the program and the merger that the rules could change at any time.

If you want to vote with your feet by all means. Maybe UA will listen, maybe they will not. But it is time to let go at least here anyways.

This reminds me a course I took in college, games and decisions in electoral bodies. It was an awesome course, at the end of it my avg was 89.4. What did I get for the course a "B" (school didn't do +/-) was I upset of course, and did I ask for consideration. My professor's response was "no, if you wanted it you have to have earned it." That was that.

I am going to ignore the sarcasm. There is a difference between the terms and conditions that allow program changes at any time and breaking a contract. With ticketing I think there are good arguments both for and against honoring the HKG tickets. With the MM programs, there are no decent arguments for the MM demands.

Also you will have noticed the the four-miler thread has gone away for the most part. I assume you haven't read any of the last posts in there where I advise NOT suing united over the matter and note that UA is in a pretty good position.

I don't personally feel that mistakes absolve people of responsibility for their actions. In Georgia, there was an 80 year old grandmother who accidentally killed a five year old child while driving. The driver was past the age where she could safely drive, but she did it anyway. Did she mean to kill the kid, no of course not, she just made a mistake. The courts prosecuted her for negligent homicide. Anyways my point is people make mistakes all the time. However, people should be held accountable for those mistakes. Just because it is a mistake DOESN'T eliminate a persons responsibility for that mistake.

SEA1K4EVR

Really? What are the promo details? Just curious..

colpuck

Double EQM promo for tickets booked though end of year.

stephenbgarvan

your points are well understood by many who have been longterm loyal pmUA fliers..
Thanks for all of us continuing to work together!!

Pat89339

Just love this statement!

dhammer53

Bolding mine. Agreed. Last year I flew ~60,000 miles on UA. This year = 5000 for 1 transcon, with 1 upcoming transcon trip. Total 2012 BIS = 10,000.

dh

ocn2ocn

Moving past the frustration over the stripping of the 2MM benefits -- and I still respectfully disagree with your take on this -- and your disappointment with the 4 mile award not being honored (clearly a mistake that could have been compensated with some lesser gesture than the full value of the award ticket), what are the big picture items upon which we should all agree? To you point about being unified in our collective request(s) to UA, what are the highest priority items that should be adjusted in your view?

SADDE6

Having long been a loyal United flyer, I've now done something that until recently would have been unthinkable--fly on Southwest Airlines.

The experience was a quite a shock. Despite having no status and without having to pay anything extra I got a great seat, 2 free checked bags, and lots of good free snacks. The plane left at exactly the scheduled departure time and arrived in over 30 minutes early. Every employee I encountered was friendly and helpful.

I used to do anything to avoid flying Southwest. But after UA cut the MM benefits, I figured why not give Southwest a try. In hindsight, I should have tried them a long time ago.

Thanks UA for helping me realize, as you've often reminded me on your flights, that I do have a choice of airlines.

chinatraderjmr

So UAis offering double EQM's for those that left? Jeeeez. I guess I'm the biggest sucker of all. I never got that offer. Stopped flying UA Internationally but still made 1K on domestic. What was the point? I guess next year I'll fly more on AA (certainly the Trans cons) & wait for UA to offer me dbl EQM's before bothering to even look at making 1K