Kapi04

This issue is now happening the second time this year already and I really feel defrauded by Turkish Airlines.

Earlier this year I had booked an award ticket on Singapore Airlines (FRA-SIN-PER). I received the confirmation number, ticketnumber paid the taxes and 35.000 miles. After some time I tried to check my reservation on SQ website but always would get an error. After checking the reservation with both SQ and TK it appeared that the flights was never confirmed on SQ side. However, on TK website the the flights still show as confirmed when I check the reservation. But when checking with the call center they are telling me that my reservation is cancelled on those flights. As there was still availability in X class the agents tried to reinstate the reservation, however SQ system will always decline the reservation request. There seems to be no solution here and despite having an E-Ticket both TK and SQ are telling me that I will not be able to travel. I fear that cancellation and refund is the best I can do here and stop dealing with this unprofessional customer service. However, those miles would have been expired by now and even though the issue is on TK side I fear they will not refund the miles or extend them. Is there any way to deal with such issues? The feedback form process is useless as I am getting standard responses without really addressing my specific case.

Now second time this has happened is with Air New Zealand booked with M&S. Again, I do have a confirmation, e-ticket and miles and taxes were deducted. After some weeks I was not able to find my reservation on Air New Zealand anymore. I called ANZ and they were able to find my ticket but told me I am not listed as a passenger on those flights. I called Turkish Airlines after that, and they told me the flight was cancelled (which is not true). Apparently again TK somehow failed to reissue the ticket correctly on Air New Zealand. No cancellation or any e-mail was received and if I had not called Air New Zealand, I would have only noticed it while trying to check-in for the flight in NAN.

I am really shocked by their behavior. Call center agents do understand that this issue is on their side but have no authority to do something about it and refer to the feedback process on the website. However, this leads to nothing as the feedback department will only comeback with standard answers and doesn't care at all about those issues.

Is there somebody who had similar issues and was able to solve it?

BR
Kapi

craigthemif

The fact that you use the word "fraud" makes it hard to take your complaints seriously.

Given how rare award seats are on SQ and NZ - especially for partner FFPs to book - I would assume that you have stumbled across glitches where TK thinks there might be award space, but the operating airlines have no intention of confirming it.

Are these situations where you could have booked with UA or Aeroplan, but decided to try M&S to spend fewer miles? Or were you checking the airline FFPs directly and then called TK to book (and got lucky)?

P.S. The only "magic" solution with TK is getting a ticket office involved instead of the call centre.

Kapi04

Thanks for your reply. Well, I am considering it as a fraud because they are not honoring the ticket/contract and they will also not refund the miles which I have paid as they would have expired in the meantime. They are failing to honour my reservation so I would at least expect to get back all taxes and all miles. In my opinion they have to honour the reservation after they provide me with an e-ticket and use a revenue booking class if not able to reissue in X class, but they are refusing to do so. I really needed those flights and the only thing I am requesting is to be able to use my valid e-ticket and if they failed to issue the reservation for some reason on the operating carrier it is their obligation to fix it. I am basiacally left with no options at all, rebooking is not an option as there is no more availability.

I don't have any UA miles, but I used UA website to find availability, other programs were showing availability aswell. Yes availability on SQ and NZ is very rare and that is why I have booked far in advance. Now X class is zeroed out of course. There was no glitch, could have booked it via United Aeroplan, LH Miles&More, Aegean Miles&Bonus, it was just that I had still spare miles with TK which I wanted to use. My feeling (at least for NZ) is that they have failed to reissue the ticket after a schedule/time change by NZ in the required time frame and now are not able to do it anymore due to no availablity of X Class.

And yes, ticket office is always the better option, but when things go wrong and something is out of their normal procedures they will refer you to the HQ in Turkey. Miles are not refunded by the ticket office and if those miles have an expiration date in the past they will not be refunded even in such an involuntary case.

craigthemif

I don't know of a single FFP that buys its members revenue tickets when partner airlines reject ticketing of mileage awards. At best they try to open a seat on their own metal, which obviously isn't possible in this case.

Yes it's frustrating and yes TK ought to do better, but any FTer should know that M&S is a high-risk, high-reward FFP. If you want low risk *A you choose UA or LH and pay far more miles / surcharges for award flights.

I certainly continue to recommend you not use the word "fraud" in your communications with TK, or you will be totally ignored. An e-ticket number does not guarantee that the ticket was issued properly or is valid for travel, as I have discovered many times over the years. Technical glitches and programme rules (i.e. expiry) are not fraud.

Kapi04

Yes probably no FFP will buy revenue tickets voluntarily, but in theory they would have to once they gave you a confirmation. From legal perspective there is no difference between a revenue ticket and an award ticket from what I heard. As a customer I should be able to assume that a e-ticket number and a confirmation which shows the segments/flights as confirmed is valid for travel. As I said I would have never found out if not calling the airline, those tickets still show as confirmed on TK website and nothing indicates something is wrong. I know at least of one case where someone was able to get back the cost of the revenue ticket after denied boarding in an almost identical case (award on BR) after taking TK to court. As I don't want to be stranded in Fiji I am not attempting this.

Even if it is a technical glitch, as a customer I have zero involvment here. Why should the combination of program rules and the "glitch" be used to my disadvantage. If there is a glitch the contract should be undone at least and miles to be reinstated for a short timeframe so I am able to use them again. Not knowing about this issue I had no chance to use the miles before expiration as they are used in this reservation. I really don't understand why you are defending TK. I have zero chance to know before the booking if there might be a glitch and if I am a business owner I have to take care of my IT and take responsibility if something goes wrong and not my customer. But yes, I did NOT use the word fraud with TK, but it is the way I feel. I am pretty sure if I would take legal actions they would have to honour the ticket, but I have better things to do with my time.

I am also E+ but the only high reward I see is with the E+ upgrade coupons and easy requalifiaction. The miles are basically almost useless if not using them on TK, too many issues with partner awards.

jimig

I'm in a similar situation, TK never issued an infant ticket attached to mine and we only found out at checkin. Had to miss the first hotel night and rebook cash the following day. Still waiting for a refund and compensation.

We will rebook for a different trip hopefully and never go near Turkish/M&S again.

craigthemif

I'm not actually defending TK. Merely pointing out that your disappointment at M&S' way of doing business in no way meets any legal definition of "fraud". That would entail a deliberate cancellation of your tickets in order to force your miles to expire unused.

The mistake people make over and over when dealing with airlines is bringing emotion into it. (ruined my honeymoon. stuck at an airport for several hours, etc. etc.) These emotions are irrelevant and generally work against you when an overworked manager with authority to do something actually has a chance to look at your case. (especially when English is not their first language) Simple, factual arguments are the only ones with a chance at success.

M&S could certainly reinstate your miles or, more likely, issue you new miles that compensate for the expired ones. But if you go around insisting on feedback forms about TK buying you a revenue ticket or shouting fraud, no feedback form agent will engage with you proactively. And you will be left with little more than an FT thread detailing your woes...

SK AAR

Very well spoken, Sir. Couldn't agree more. Continuing the nonsense that TK M&S needs to buy a revenue ticket will block everything/lead to nowhere.

scubadu

Perfectly stated and completely agree.

Regards

Kapi04

Thanks for your empathy ... What is nonsense here aswell is to distinguish between a award ticket paid with miles and a ticket paid with cash. EU Regulation 261/2004 Article 3 / 3 specifically describes that there is no difference between award tickets and revenue tickets in terms of passenger rights, and I am sure other regulations are very similar. The miles are also a form of payment and there is a certain value of those miles. I am referring to irregularities where changes/cancellation happen after having a confirmed ticket. Of course I have no rights at all to force them to sell a specific award, but once they did I think I should have the same rights to be transported to my destination within a reasonable time frame as with tickets paid with cash. And as with tickets paid with cash in most cases it will result in having to use another booking class which is possible in case of schedule changes or irregular operations. And yes maybe it is not fraud but passenger rights and contract of carriage are completely neglected here. Sorry for using the wrong terminology but I still think I have the right to insist on the e-ticket and contract of carriage as long as those flights are operating. If they would provide my with any solution at all rerouting/date change/etc I would happily accept it, but they don't. What you are saying is that I basically have no rights at all holding an award ticket. I don't see how this is good for us FFP customers

Kapi04

Thanks for the advice. I did not express any unusual frustration when dealing with TK via feedback form, I know it doesn't help. Having success there is pure luck and depends on who will work on your ticket. Of course I asked to reissue the ticket which they refused. Now I asked for cancellation and refund of full miles, let's see what will happen. I just can advise everybody to check partner award tickets with the operating carrier on regular basis as TK will not send notifications in case of schedule changes or cancellation of partner awards, such issues will not show when checking reservations on TK website and they most likely will not notice it themselves.

SilverChris

OP mentioned X class (Economy), so it's entirely possible the space was real on both airlines. If this were 'I' class then I'd be more skeptical.

TK is notorious for having communication breakdowns with OALs. I suspect the ticket number wasn't properly 'pushed' to SQ/NZ after issuance, so the segments were auto-cancelled after the ticketing deadline passed, and the space never went back to the inventory or was subsequently grabbed by someone else.

Negligent? Perhaps, but tough to prove. Fraudulent? Not in the slightest.

nacho

I don't know why TK were able to book you on those tickets but SQ and NZ couldn't confirmed it. UA availability is not solid unless you completed the booking - I tried with an itinerary seemed bookable but then I could never pay for it. Called UA and was told that they couldn't see it at all - that was for a TG award flight with UA miles.

If you had trouble booking your first partner flight, why not wait until its outcome before booking the second one, or use them on TK instead?

I have done multiple award bookings in the past with TK - LH and ANA and I had 0 issue.

Calling them fraud is too harsh - I would say bad customer service. If you are based in the US or if one of the itinerary involves a US destination, you can try DOT.

danielflyer

I would look at your rights under EU law since the ticket was booked from FRA. German courts have routinely held that a booking confirmation is legally binding. Do your own research into EU261 first, but one option might be to book your own flight and file a lawsuit against TK in Germany for the full value later.

Stil

Contact SÖP they are probably the most robust consumer protection body in Europe, when it comes to air travel (it's free).

German Air Consumer Ombudsman
“Schlichtungsstelle fuer öffentlichen Personenverkehr e.V.”

Good luck!