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-   -   Clear ceases operations & is back [merged threads] (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trusted-travelers/967565-clear-ceases-operations-back-merged-threads.html)

LessO2 Jun 23, 2009 9:32 am


Originally Posted by ufmiked (Post 11954867)
You apparently enjoy the lines. Hey, I get it. You like the extra 10-15 minutes to talk to fellow travelers and get your personal affairs in order :) You were presented with an obvious solution to avoiding lines and ignored it.

I didn't ignore anything. The fact of the matter is that I got through in the elite line faster than the Clear line most of the time. Not all the time, but definitely most of the time.



Originally Posted by ufmiked (Post 11954867)
That or you have a unwarranted fear that your fingerprints are going to be used against you!

Now, if that were the case, why did I give my fingerprints and retina scans to the Canadian and U.S. Governments for Global Entry and NEXUS?

Any witty response to that?



Originally Posted by ufmiked (Post 11954867)
Of that $45 billion, just how much was from biometrics? Probably less than 1/10th of 1 percent if any at all. Identity theft figures are a joke because they include every dispute, unrecognized charge, and fraud (by the cardholder themselves). You know what they say about statistics...

The statement I replied to was a declaration that "nobody wants to use your biometrics against you." Believe me, if there are people dressing up as their dead mother, there are people who will use your biometrics against you.

Let me enlighten you on my position, which was clearly stated in the original Clear thread.

1. In the long run, I felt Steven Brill was profiting off of the 9/11 tragedy. That is wrong.

2. I was concerned about privacy issues. The Clear folks proved me right in their inability to lose a laptop temporarily (even though it was right under their nose).

3. As mentioned earlier, there were many times that I beat the Clear line at my home airport via the elite line.

4. In principle, I don't think I need a background check, fingerprint and retina scans in order to enroll in a glorified line-cut program. If you felt it was worth it, more power to you.


There was a huge misconception, partially precipitated by Clear, that the program would either enable a partial or full bypass of the "security" process/screening. Once it became clear that it wasn't that, in my opinion, was the downfall of the program.

The TSA did not like this program....ever. When they did not budge on shoe or coat removal or SSSS-exemption for Clear members, that demonstrated there was no real benefit for the price and the other information they wanted.

So no, my reasoning wasn't knee-jerk at all, I just happened to think things through and see the model was unsustainable.

Global_Hi_Flyer Jun 23, 2009 9:54 am

My opinion: TSA wins again. Because they can.

TSA fought the registered traveler programs at every turn. They stalled, they delayed, they made it so that there was no advantage other than skipping a line. The RT programs tried various things to make life simpler for subscribers... and TSA shot every one down. At DCA, the TSA even eliminated some of the priority that CLEAR folks got (and I observed at DCA last week that the TSA document checker had to inspect the CLEAR employee's badge each time he escorted folks to the X-Ray... even if said Clear employee was in full eyesight of TSA each time). Remember that for a long time the Clear card didn't count as ID, and Clear passengers had to present a separate ID to the TSA after confirming identity.

No, folks, in my opinion this is another casualty of TSA obstructionism. Clear may have been financially unsustainable, but the TSA made sure of that.

FWIW, I saw some celebrating among TSA folks at one airport yesterday when the news came out....

UA1kMFR Jun 23, 2009 10:04 am

This is sad. Now it is back to TSA Hell.

Horizons Jun 23, 2009 10:33 am


Originally Posted by Spiff (Post 11953941)
These are all issues that you should have raised before being parted with your money and your personal information. @:-)

People should have been howling for TSA's blood, instead of handing over their money and their personal information.

Spiff, I generally agree with what you write, but you know as well as the rest of us how things work in this country and the direction they're headed even more so.

Yeah, TSA outsourced the Registered Traveler program so a private company could make some money. But that's the way the USofA operates these days... functions that in any other sane (fair) country would be the province of government, at whatever level, are passed out as favors to industry.

Look at federal income taxes -- there is no rational reason in the world that the IRS doesn't set up and manage its own electronic system for paying taxes. But what does our government do instead? It outsources the process to countless private firms that really make their money by mining our data. You think one shred of what you send the IRS via eFile is safe from prying eyes? I would never use that service no matter how much the IRS pleads or threatens. It is shameful that our most intimate tax data passes through private hands before it reaches the IRS.

The same is true of our health information under the insane, unworkable patchwork quilt we call health insurance/HMOs. And if our health data ever goes electronic, you can be pretty d@mn sure the US government is going to outsource that to private firms, too. It's madness.

Many of us wanted (needed) to get through security lines faster. We spend too much time in those lines already anyway. TSA offered us only one way to do it... work with their vendor of choice. The alternative -- to miss flights -- was completely unacceptable. But if TSA was going to "endorse" and "fully partner with" this company, they should have done as the FDIC does with banks... ensure its viability in the event of trouble. Endorsement should mean more than just handing out favors.

Any of you out there who are even contemplating a flame because "government is incompetent and private industry does things much more efficiently", you can kiss my ___. I spent half my career in each, and in my view the cadre of middle management working for federal, state and local government in the US is twice as dedicated, resourceful, and intelligent as those working in private industry. We should be proud of what our government does and encourage it to do more, as in other G7 countries, rather than continually bash it. If your expectations are zero, that's what you'll get.

GUWonder Jun 23, 2009 10:35 am


Originally Posted by jfulcher (Post 11954596)
They won't do a darn thing - and you know it.

Your claim is wrong on both counts -- conditionally wrong with the first and unconditionally wrong on the second.


Originally Posted by jfulcher
I've written my senators several times in the past about the TSA.

If the 260,000 people who decided to buy into the TSA nonsense by jumping onto the "registered" passenger stupidity suddenly came to their senses and jumped on board complaining en masse today to their Senators and Congressperson about the TSA stupidity that is the shoe carnival war on liquids and gels and the ID-is-security fallacy, then more of their elected politicians would do something about the TSA.

If most of those 260,000 passengers continue to play surrender monkey to the TSA stupidity, then the TSA stupidity will continue to reign supreme and the members of CLEAR doing such will continue to get what they deserve.

Buster CT1K Jun 23, 2009 10:40 am

I am totally with GUWonder and Spiff. We should demand easy, safe, clean and quick security as a matter of right in this country, and not have to pay good, hard-earned US dollars to privatized contractors for a bare facsimile of such civil liberties.

rogue_cat Jun 23, 2009 10:43 am

I agree with others that the service was beneficial and also would have missed flights without clear. I traveled frequently through airports with Clear, which saved a lot of time. I would readily sign up again.

bdschobel Jun 23, 2009 10:53 am


Originally Posted by LessO2 (Post 11954814)
I'm a Marriott Platinum, live in a former Clear city and did not take the offer.

Ditto.

Bruce

bdschobel Jun 23, 2009 10:55 am


Originally Posted by LessO2 (Post 11954814)
The TSA did not like this program....ever. When they did not budge on shoe or coat removal or SSSS-exemption for Clear members, that demonstrated there was no real benefit for the price and the other information they wanted.

I agree. I also agree with Spiff that we should not have to pay extra to get what everyone deserves for free.

Bruce

climmy Jun 23, 2009 10:55 am


Originally Posted by Buster CT1K (Post 11955432)
I am totally with GUWonder and Spiff. We should demand easy, safe, clean and quick security as a matter of right in this country, and not have to pay good, hard-earned US dollars to privatized contractors for a bare facsimile of such civil liberties.

Never EVER going to happen. Period. If they somehow streamlined the screening process, there'd be another story of how testers were able to get contraband thru the screening point. Our hyper-sensational media would make the pendulum swing back the other way. I offer guarantee.

This country runs on fear, plain and simple. The fact that people are worried about their biometrics proves it. My freakin' dentist has more information about me than Clear did. I send my tax returns in every year with my social plastered on every page thru regular mail. Both items are handled by people who could be unscrupulous if they wanted to.

Ebay, on-line credit card processing, EVERYTHING we do leaves at trail that could be picked up by bad people. We need to get over all this fear and deal with the realities of today's America.

bdschobel Jun 23, 2009 10:58 am


Originally Posted by Buster CT1K (Post 11955432)
I am totally with GUWonder and Spiff. We should demand easy, safe, clean and quick security as a matter of right in this country, and not have to pay good, hard-earned US dollars to privatized contractors for a bare facsimile of such civil liberties.

Yup.

Bruce

jfulcher Jun 23, 2009 11:04 am

I'm hoping FLO buys their userbase and location rights and gets things rolling. They'll have to do it quickly before airports start removing stuff.

Justin026 Jun 23, 2009 11:07 am

On the useful information front, getting warmer on one subject; I was able to get in touch with the university where the listed Privacy Ombudsman for the Clear program is on the faculty. The Chancellor's office and the Dean's office in the Law School now know about it -- am still waiting for callback from the professor himself or the adminstrator of the Law and Technology Center, which the prof is the Director of.

American Express will not open a case file for charges older than 60 days, but they will note on your record that you called. I also took the name and time of day I spoke with the agent. Interestingly, the Amex website still is offering Clear memberships as a card benefit (I took a screen shot of that and encourage others to do so as well).

There could well be litigation involving travel partners with Clear -- we are talking about $40 million -- so it doesn't hurt to monument your position.

docmonkey Jun 23, 2009 11:26 am


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 11955395)
If the 260,000 people who decided to buy into the TSA nonsense by jumping onto the "registered" passenger stupidity suddenly came to their senses and jumped on board complaining en masse today to their Senators and Congressperson about the TSA stupidity that is the shoe carnival war on liquids and gels and the ID-is-security fallacy, then more of their elected politicians would do something about the TSA.

If most of those 260,000 passengers continue to play surrender monkey to the TSA stupidity, then the TSA stupidity will continue to reign supreme and the members of CLEAR doing such will continue to get what they deserve.

This is a great post.

tjisnumbaone Jun 23, 2009 11:27 am


Originally Posted by ShopAround (Post 11951458)
Clear has ceased operations, effective today. :eek: http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs...entId=blogDest

Wow. Glad I didn't get one. Anyone flown yet today at an airport where CLEAR was? Was the station completely gone or just not manned?

I'm guessing that slot where CLEAR (typically in BOS) will become a FC/Medallion line?


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