ilcannone

Exactly, the US. The US is like a massive exception to everything. The last time I ever had to sign for something was in Iceland in 2010 about 3 months after the eruption, can't recall a time before or since then either.

Although I will say working in the education sphere and having previously studied in the music world has most likely drilled it into me to always carry some sort of writing implement at all times.

Proudelitist

Oh, I understand that, and I know I will encounter it. However, that is no reason to engage in it or to not take measures to avoid it. My whole travel method involves devising the ways and means to sit up front and reduce interactions.

As for self absorption, it seems to me that imposing upon others, interfering with the smooth flow of crowd traffic, asking others to accommodate your basic wants and making things harder for strangers as a result of a lack of foresight is itself the very result of self absorption.

After all, what is swimming up stream and back if NOT being self absorbed? What is leaving all your metals on and your liquids loose at TSA while people pile up behind you, despite the signs posted everywhere, if NOT self absorption? What is asking a stranger to swap from their seat so you can sit with a spouse if NOT self absorption? I would even go so far as to say that my behavior is the very antidote to self absorption.

ilcannone

I absolutely 100% agree with all of this. However - never fly within the former USSR nations then, lol. Take it from someone who travels from Kaliningrad to Kamchatka and everywhere in between in and out of Moscow on a regular basis!


THIS! Genius idea.

rickg523

I agree, except for the assumption that most of these things are the result of lack of foresight - I take them more as lack of information and because of infrequency, the lack of willingness to expend the effort to become more informed. If I'm occasionally staying at a rental with a swimming pool, I'll use the pool, but I'm not going to study up on pool maintenance. OTOH, we fly a lot. It serves us well to figure flying out.
I don't think doctrinaire refusal to assist others who have, due to their ignorance, gotten themselves in a minor pickle easily corrected with little or no inconvenience is helpful, nor do I believe it's in any way remedial to the inexperienced. I think that's just taken as bloodymindedness. And, human nature being what it is, likely to be paid back to the next unfortunate person they encounter. Thus making travel just a little less pleasant all around.
To me, lending someone a pen, helping them lift their bag, even swapping seats (if reasonably equitable) just helps make transit a less onerous part as travel. Even if they're clueless morons, as long as they're polite, I'll help out. If they come on as unpleasant demanding jerks, of course, I won't. And I will tell them directly and exactly why I'm not. Though I hold no illusion that will have any beneficial results to the true narcissists among us.

s0ssos

That is easily explainable. It is not their own house and they do not have to clean it. And they do not have to face anyone else (unlike you)
But not washing after using the bathroom and then eating or doing whatever? That does not make sense to me

catcher1

Now you resort to a bunch of red herrings.
This is about a simple request to borrow a pen. You don't have to be a nanny to lend a pen, in my view you just have to be a decent human being. Even if it "grates on your nerves."

akl_traveller

I agree it wasn't your responsibility to clean up after the guy before you.
But it's also not your responsibility to let somebody into a queue of slow/stopped traffic
Also not your responsibility to hold the door open for somebody behind you
It also isn't your responsibility to say "please" or "thanks" or to smile at the cashier.

None of these are responsibilities. They are, however, the sign of civilisation, of proper manners, and of generally being a good sort.

If you don't do these things, those of us with manners will think less of you. But it won't stop us treating you well. Because we understand that *even if we think you are a philistine, we should still treat you well*.

(And I wasn't even born in "the South", nor did I attend Harrow or anything of the sort)

akl_traveller

One can both (a) not suffer fools and (b) still remain polite.

Here's a hint: "This bill is wrong" vs. "I should think you might have accidentally mixed up my order - could you check?"
Both lead to you getting your money back. The latter one enables you both to save face (you if you got it wrong, them if they made a mistake."

Here's how you could (a) not suffer fools and (b) be polite.
"Might I borrow a pen?"
"Absolutely," (smiling) "I always think it's a good idea to have a pen, you never know who might ask for one!"

The recipient will understand exactly what you are saying, but you are doing it in a polite manner that leaves everyone feeling happy.

s0ssos

I think you didn't mean to write "should", but if you did, I think "should" doesn't make it nice anymore.

akl_traveller

Should is correct; If you have a copy of Fowler's Modern English Usage look at "shall and will" (page 548 in my copy). You are correct that there may be even more pleasant ways of phrasing it, however e.g "Is it possible that you might have..."

LTBoston

Would you have apologized if she had not been "super hot?"

s0ssos

If you look at the actual modern usage of the word "should", you will find that most people find impolite
"Should" means "ought to", "supposed to", ... Like you are telling someone what to do, as if they were a little kid.

Now, if you used "shall" it would just go over most people's head.

Proudelitist

Seems condescending to me. The very nannying I am trying to avoid. I would simply say "Yes, here is my pen" and when they note that it is out of ink, I would apologize and watch as their pen problem deepens.

Giggleswick

IME, in the UK at least, the construction in question is common and not at all impolite. It simply means something like "it's most likely that..." or "it is natural to think that...." Furthermore, the "should" applies to the speaker, not to the listener, so it is not telling the listener what to do.

Saint4805

Yes, unless it was Donald J Trump waiting.