Ridiculous things your company has done to reduce travel expenses
Sep 1, 2012, 6:12 am
#121
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wirral, United Kingdom
Programs: American Express Platinum, HHonors Diamond (earned), Aer Lingus Gold Circle, ex-UA,ex-NZ
Posts: 261
This was a very long time ago...
Although policy was economy class only, I wanted to travel business class and my company insisted that I paid the extra £8 myself, so I did.
This meant, among other things, I got a meal on the flights. However, in economy (all that was paid for by my employer) this was not the case...so I could claim for the evening meals. Not surprisingly, this exceeded £8 by a significant amount.
Although policy was economy class only, I wanted to travel business class and my company insisted that I paid the extra £8 myself, so I did.
This meant, among other things, I got a meal on the flights. However, in economy (all that was paid for by my employer) this was not the case...so I could claim for the evening meals. Not surprisingly, this exceeded £8 by a significant amount.
Sep 1, 2012, 8:32 am
#122
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 239
That just seems counterproductive. I know my work product suffers if I go that long without eating. I'm sure I could find a workaround if I had to - likely involving a hotel that provided breakfast to elites and a nearby deli open at 8AM to buy a cold lunch sandwich as my expensed "breakfast". Just doesn't seem like the company has much to gain from this policy...
(If the intent is that you're never to eat lunch without a client, and thus always expensing those meals in under a specific client meal policy, that's obviously a different story...)
(If the intent is that you're never to eat lunch without a client, and thus always expensing those meals in under a specific client meal policy, that's obviously a different story...)
I'm told a different policy applies if you travel internationally.
Sep 1, 2012, 5:09 pm
#123
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 333
Here's a new one.
Booking a middle seat on a TCON instead of the dozen readily available aisle/window seats because the system shows the aisle/window as no-cost "preferred" seating & I didn't have an authorization for premium seating.
Booking a middle seat on a TCON instead of the dozen readily available aisle/window seats because the system shows the aisle/window as no-cost "preferred" seating & I didn't have an authorization for premium seating.
Sep 2, 2012, 6:07 am
#124
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: South Yorkshire, UK
Programs: A3*G, LH FTL, VS Red, Avis Preferred, Hertz President's Circle, (RIP Diamond Club)
Posts: 2,364
Just got told that the company doesn't pay for hotels, meals and rental cars at weekends for intra-continental trips. This was highlighted to me because I am on my way to a conference that starts at 9am tomorrow (Monday) in some little corner of northern Spain that the airlines forgot, so I have a 2 flight journey plus a two hour drive to get there. So I am now travelling on my own time to a conference that my boss deemed it was vital that I attend and face having to pay the costs myself... I turned down tickets to the Paralympics for this!
I only found out because my colleague went from LHR to Vladivostock two weeks ago and just had his expenses bounced back to him for flying on a Sunday because he "didn't leave Europe"! Seriously? Buy a globe...
I only found out because my colleague went from LHR to Vladivostock two weeks ago and just had his expenses bounced back to him for flying on a Sunday because he "didn't leave Europe"! Seriously? Buy a globe...
Sep 2, 2012, 6:37 am
#125
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Modern Software
All of this is solved with modern software which can record "exceptions" and the stated reason for the "exception item" right in the travel booking. All that management and auditors need to do is scan through the exception items and they can be satisfied (or not) that an employee is (not) scamming them.
1. Weekend travel is a good one. Many companies won't pay. But, as set forth above, there are times when its necessary. Simple popup box which notes the weekend travel and calls for a quick fill-in explanation does the trick.
2. Same thing is true in IRROPS. Why did you expense a hotel at a connection point when you left at 10 AM and should have been home by 6 PM with a connection in between? Popup box explanation listing the flights and conditions is all that ought to be needed (auditors if they really want to check can go look it up or look at the itinerary printout).
3. Finally, there is travel which benefits the employee and is done at no cost to the employer. If you can squeeze an extra night in and not have it cost anything, why would anyone care? But, it does deserve an explanation (pay 4 nights, get the 5th night free).
If you are so suspicious of your employees, who after all hold the future of your company in their hands, you should get rid of them and hire ones you trust or otherwise figure out that you can spend a lot of money to catch the one guy expensing a morning newspaper.
1. Weekend travel is a good one. Many companies won't pay. But, as set forth above, there are times when its necessary. Simple popup box which notes the weekend travel and calls for a quick fill-in explanation does the trick.
2. Same thing is true in IRROPS. Why did you expense a hotel at a connection point when you left at 10 AM and should have been home by 6 PM with a connection in between? Popup box explanation listing the flights and conditions is all that ought to be needed (auditors if they really want to check can go look it up or look at the itinerary printout).
3. Finally, there is travel which benefits the employee and is done at no cost to the employer. If you can squeeze an extra night in and not have it cost anything, why would anyone care? But, it does deserve an explanation (pay 4 nights, get the 5th night free).
If you are so suspicious of your employees, who after all hold the future of your company in their hands, you should get rid of them and hire ones you trust or otherwise figure out that you can spend a lot of money to catch the one guy expensing a morning newspaper.
Sep 2, 2012, 7:01 am
#126
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,964
.....
Last edited by angatol; Mar 1, 2015 at 12:27 am
Sep 2, 2012, 8:04 am
#127
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: KSU (Kristiansund N, Norway)
Programs: SAS EBD/ *G
Posts: 2,163
Similar lists do exist in other countries. This is the official Norwegian list, often used by private companies as well. (Sums are in NOK)
The Norwegian government reimburses documented travel costs for government employees (restrictions vary between agencies when it comes to business class travel, use of preferred carriers etc) and lists maximum allowed hotel costs per night, as well as per diem, supposed to cover incidentals as well as three meals per day. Meals included in hotel rate or provided by host is subtracted by a percentage of the per diem (e.g. breakfast is 10%). Sums might be exceeded with documentation. Funnily enough for those complaining about high costs in Norway, the sums for domestic travel in Norway is NOK 640 per diem for food and up to NOK 1550 per night for hotel stays, compared to NOK 1400 for food in DC (~USD 241 per day which seems very reasonable) and hotel up to 3300 in DC. (~USD 569)
The Norwegian government reimburses documented travel costs for government employees (restrictions vary between agencies when it comes to business class travel, use of preferred carriers etc) and lists maximum allowed hotel costs per night, as well as per diem, supposed to cover incidentals as well as three meals per day. Meals included in hotel rate or provided by host is subtracted by a percentage of the per diem (e.g. breakfast is 10%). Sums might be exceeded with documentation. Funnily enough for those complaining about high costs in Norway, the sums for domestic travel in Norway is NOK 640 per diem for food and up to NOK 1550 per night for hotel stays, compared to NOK 1400 for food in DC (~USD 241 per day which seems very reasonable) and hotel up to 3300 in DC. (~USD 569)
Sep 2, 2012, 9:27 am
#128
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 38,417
Just got told that the company doesn't pay for hotels, meals and rental cars at weekends for intra-continental trips. This was highlighted to me because I am on my way to a conference that starts at 9am tomorrow (Monday) in some little corner of northern Spain that the airlines forgot, so I have a 2 flight journey plus a two hour drive to get there. So I am now travelling on my own time to a conference that my boss deemed it was vital that I attend and face having to pay the costs myself... I turned down tickets to the Paralympics for this!
I would have dropped it in the boss' lap--"I see no way to do this complying with the expense rules. Please enlighten me."
Sep 2, 2012, 10:47 am
#129
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Similar lists do exist in other countries. This is the official Norwegian list, often used by private companies as well. (Sums are in NOK)
The Norwegian government reimburses documented travel costs for government employees (restrictions vary between agencies when it comes to business class travel, use of preferred carriers etc) and lists maximum allowed hotel costs per night, as well as per diem, supposed to cover incidentals as well as three meals per day. Meals included in hotel rate or provided by host is subtracted by a percentage of the per diem (e.g. breakfast is 10%). Sums might be exceeded with documentation. Funnily enough for those complaining about high costs in Norway, the sums for domestic travel in Norway is NOK 640 per diem for food and up to NOK 1550 per night for hotel stays, compared to NOK 1400 for food in DC (~USD 241 per day which seems very reasonable) and hotel up to 3300 in DC. (~USD 569)
The Norwegian government reimburses documented travel costs for government employees (restrictions vary between agencies when it comes to business class travel, use of preferred carriers etc) and lists maximum allowed hotel costs per night, as well as per diem, supposed to cover incidentals as well as three meals per day. Meals included in hotel rate or provided by host is subtracted by a percentage of the per diem (e.g. breakfast is 10%). Sums might be exceeded with documentation. Funnily enough for those complaining about high costs in Norway, the sums for domestic travel in Norway is NOK 640 per diem for food and up to NOK 1550 per night for hotel stays, compared to NOK 1400 for food in DC (~USD 241 per day which seems very reasonable) and hotel up to 3300 in DC. (~USD 569)
Also, remember, for USG travellers, they can get up to 300% of the established GSA rate authorized depending on circumstances and rank.
Sep 2, 2012, 12:03 pm
#130
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: AA EXP, SPG Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Misc. others
Posts: 209
In my last role, our travel policy was fantastic - I had an annual budget, which was based on a reasonable average cost for the number of nights we were anticipated to travel. Being within 5% (+/-) of said annual budget resulted in extra "points" on the year-end scorecard that determined bonus amounts. We also had the option of "hitching a ride" on the Corporate Jet if our schedules lined up.
Mr. tebfunk's travel policies however, are horrendous!
He works for a very large company (Fortune 100), but his group of about 150 has become mired in a weird overlap of restrictive travel policies that don't apply elsewhere:
1. No travel outside of "normal business hours", which, although his group supports clients 24/7, has been defined as M-F 8-5. He also only gets paid for 8 hours of work on a "travel day", regardless of how long the travel takes. These two combined frequently mean leaving California on Tuesday or Wednesday to be at the international client site on Monday.
2. All per diems are set at the US GSA rate, even though it is frequently impossible to get those rates as a civilian, especially when he has to use "approved hotels".
3. The first and last travel day only get 75% of per diem, regardless of receipts submitted.
4. The negotiated agreements with the "preferred partner" for rental cars don't cover international locations, but he still has to use that company.
5. No expenses can be reimbursed until timecard hours have been billed to the client charge number, but employees are responsible for interest charges when their corporate cards aren't paid "in a timely manner". This means waiting until the last possible moment to purchase airline tickets, even when travel is scheduled months in advance, so they're all spending $8k+ on tickets that could have been had for <$2k.
On the plus side, he was not required to submit receipts for anything less than $75, and could expense fuel "as needed", and was able to travel in J for travel of more than 8 hours.
The new "money saving" policy (effective yesterday), keeps the above requirements, but limits air tickets to "Economy" (even when full-fare Y is more than J). Per diem continues to be 100% of GSA for hotel, meals, and incidentals, HOWEVER, for travel over 2 weeks (which is 100% for him) these $ amounts (along with $500 per week for transportation) are moving to "no receipts required/paid bi-weekly in check", which suggests the possibility of a tax liability.
Mr. tebfunk's travel policies however, are horrendous!
He works for a very large company (Fortune 100), but his group of about 150 has become mired in a weird overlap of restrictive travel policies that don't apply elsewhere:
1. No travel outside of "normal business hours", which, although his group supports clients 24/7, has been defined as M-F 8-5. He also only gets paid for 8 hours of work on a "travel day", regardless of how long the travel takes. These two combined frequently mean leaving California on Tuesday or Wednesday to be at the international client site on Monday.
2. All per diems are set at the US GSA rate, even though it is frequently impossible to get those rates as a civilian, especially when he has to use "approved hotels".
3. The first and last travel day only get 75% of per diem, regardless of receipts submitted.
4. The negotiated agreements with the "preferred partner" for rental cars don't cover international locations, but he still has to use that company.
5. No expenses can be reimbursed until timecard hours have been billed to the client charge number, but employees are responsible for interest charges when their corporate cards aren't paid "in a timely manner". This means waiting until the last possible moment to purchase airline tickets, even when travel is scheduled months in advance, so they're all spending $8k+ on tickets that could have been had for <$2k.
On the plus side, he was not required to submit receipts for anything less than $75, and could expense fuel "as needed", and was able to travel in J for travel of more than 8 hours.
The new "money saving" policy (effective yesterday), keeps the above requirements, but limits air tickets to "Economy" (even when full-fare Y is more than J). Per diem continues to be 100% of GSA for hotel, meals, and incidentals, HOWEVER, for travel over 2 weeks (which is 100% for him) these $ amounts (along with $500 per week for transportation) are moving to "no receipts required/paid bi-weekly in check", which suggests the possibility of a tax liability.
Sep 2, 2012, 1:36 pm
#131
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: South Yorkshire, UK
Programs: A3*G, LH FTL, VS Red, Avis Preferred, Hertz President's Circle, (RIP Diamond Club)
Posts: 2,364
Sep 2, 2012, 3:38 pm
#132
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: SFO/SJC/SQL
Posts: 1,412
Oh the memories of corporate stupidity.
Thankfully I just joined a smaller startup company with a good travel policy. While the official guideline is cheapest Y fare for domestic travel, the unofficial policy is pick your own airline "within reason" and it will be approved. I was a bit worried until the CFO, whom I am travelling with in a few weeks, set things straight. While looking up flights I heard her say, "Ugh, cheapest fare means we fly on Delta. Screw that." Then she asked my preferred airline which I replied, "American." She shot back with a smile, "What can't you and my husband understand Oneworld is full of hasbeen airlines getting their butts kicked by Star? I'll sign off on AA but you have to agree to drive the rental car." I think I like this place.
Thankfully I just joined a smaller startup company with a good travel policy. While the official guideline is cheapest Y fare for domestic travel, the unofficial policy is pick your own airline "within reason" and it will be approved. I was a bit worried until the CFO, whom I am travelling with in a few weeks, set things straight. While looking up flights I heard her say, "Ugh, cheapest fare means we fly on Delta. Screw that." Then she asked my preferred airline which I replied, "American." She shot back with a smile, "What can't you and my husband understand Oneworld is full of hasbeen airlines getting their butts kicked by Star? I'll sign off on AA but you have to agree to drive the rental car." I think I like this place.
Sep 2, 2012, 8:38 pm
#133
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: PHX
Programs: AA Ex Platinum & 1MM, DL PLT, Marriott Gold, HH Diamond
Posts: 2,490
The CEO of my current company has an allergy to spending company $$ on airfare & hotel bills (no, he's never heard of 'spending money to make money') so he writes into all the contracts that the client is responsible for making all travel arrangements for us except when we are combining multiple trips onto a single trip. I don't have a problem w/direct billing for the hotel stays, however, getting the plane tickets booked has been a bit of a challenge.
Our client in HNL has an arrangement with what I have dubbed the 'world's worst travel agent'-for starters I swear they truly don't understand what a FF# is as they have yet to book a single plane ticket for myself or my colleagues with our FF#'s even though they are provided at the time of booking. Our first trip out, in January, was on very short notice & 2 of us were coming from another client in Grand Rapids. These knuckleheads (the travel agency, not my colleagues
) couldn't understand that just because the guys were starting out from Grand Rapids did not mean they were going back there. After fighting w/them for 3 days (& now being less than 7 days out from the scheduled departure), told the WWTA to book the tickets & then we 'fixed' them after, billing all the change fees, etc., back to the client, of course, as well as my time trying to deal w/this mess. I don't know who is more of an idiot-the client who uses that agency or my CEO!
Our client in HNL has an arrangement with what I have dubbed the 'world's worst travel agent'-for starters I swear they truly don't understand what a FF# is as they have yet to book a single plane ticket for myself or my colleagues with our FF#'s even though they are provided at the time of booking. Our first trip out, in January, was on very short notice & 2 of us were coming from another client in Grand Rapids. These knuckleheads (the travel agency, not my colleagues
) couldn't understand that just because the guys were starting out from Grand Rapids did not mean they were going back there. After fighting w/them for 3 days (& now being less than 7 days out from the scheduled departure), told the WWTA to book the tickets & then we 'fixed' them after, billing all the change fees, etc., back to the client, of course, as well as my time trying to deal w/this mess. I don't know who is more of an idiot-the client who uses that agency or my CEO!
Sep 2, 2012, 8:55 pm
#134
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 333
Sep 2, 2012, 9:26 pm
#135
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: IAD
Programs: HH Diamond, UA Platinum
Posts: 97
Here is a combination of three things we have to do:
1. All flights must be on one particular airline. Usually we now have to make a connection when we could have gone non stop. Often we have an extra night of hotel also. I had a trip with a connection that the fare was $1100 but I could have flown non stop for $400.
2. All hotels must be under $200 per night. Easy in many cities, but tough in ny, Bos, and sf. We stay at the Ritz Carlton in STL but at a 2 star in NY.
3. All travel booked with under 7 days must be approved by VP and CFO.
1. All flights must be on one particular airline. Usually we now have to make a connection when we could have gone non stop. Often we have an extra night of hotel also. I had a trip with a connection that the fare was $1100 but I could have flown non stop for $400.
2. All hotels must be under $200 per night. Easy in many cities, but tough in ny, Bos, and sf. We stay at the Ritz Carlton in STL but at a 2 star in NY.
3. All travel booked with under 7 days must be approved by VP and CFO.