Science Goy

Sounds like a smart policy to me. And a not entirely uncommon one, either.

China Clipper

Sounds like someone under six feet tall.

Science Goy

Sounds like you're wrong. But I do get by just fine in economy, and perform my job competently even when I have to go straight to work after 20 hours of flying. Paid F/J for corporate travel is never justified under any circumstances.

pragakhan

Well, it is for 6+ hours in my case

Sorry about your luck....

radarskiy

PDX-PEN is quite common for me and my local co-workers. 30+ hours before you even get the taxi to go to the hotel. On those flights I've met other co-workers doing AUS-PEN which is a little longer. Company policy is full-fare Y; no paid J for anyone (including the tall CEO) except for medical reasons.

Uphill, both ways!

On the upside I did make AA PLT doing this route. Won't keep it long, though.

Why's it called business class if it's never justified for business? ;-) But seriously, I'm a little guy and I can't keep my shoulders hunched in long enough to avoid bumping my neighbors while I'm awake; I usually end up trying to stuff my lower arms inside the seatbelt to try to relax my shoulders.

Anyway, for an actual contribution to the thread... I don't have anything nearly as bad as anything here. We have generous allotments per meal (more than I think I could comfortably eat and the kind of place I'd chose for myself) and never asked for receipts as long as I've been below it. However, the category of the meal (breakfast/lunch/dinner) is tract by the expense reporting tool. On an eastbound TPAC the clock is actually earlier when you land than when you take off, so one mealtime get purchased twice for the same calendar day. The expense tool flags this and bugs my manager if I list e.g. two lunches as two lunches. There's no credit for the fact that on the westbound trip there's a day that never really happens.

China Clipper

Quoted for posterity. I love these sweeping pronouncements!

dranz

Hotel stays ...

- Requiring employees to share rooms.

- If a weekend stay is required; no rental car reimbursement ... unless working at the
customer site. i.e. Marooned at a contract Hampton or HIE near the office parks with
few dining/entertainment options within walking or hotel shuttle distance.

Mileage Reimbursement:

- Disallowing reimbursement for the 12-mile longer/faster/safer expressway route vs.
surface streets, thru the ghetto.

dranz

... and the inevitable exceptions/contortions for the senior execs that don't
have the keys to the BBJ. <g>

Often1

The "no F/J" fallacy is that each hour of travel is evaluated on a stand-alone basis. Businesses are competetive and making your top earners happy is part of business. People who have lousy travel experiences will find ways not to travel and thus make their employer less money. When it's a top rainmaker, that's a lot of money lost.

As a small startup or an established business struggling to survive, can you ask your people to suck it up? Sure. But, not for long if you expect to keep the top people.

In additionally, companies which are petty about travel are petty about other things too. In the long haul, the top people leave and the dregs, who have no choice, are stuck.

Maigret

we pay full PD at weekends on the grounds we recognise people have to eat and as I said in a previous post our guys aren't big on supermarket shopping...
We also pay full PD on travel days for the engineers but not the consultants (don't know why - annals of time thing).

I've never heard the limitations on days available for work (admiitedly I've never asked). We allow employees to sell up to, I think, 10 days of their annual leave so that would be a route to reduce any annual leave entitlement.

I must stress this was a unique project for us in terms of scope and timescales, we don't typicaly plan for our FSE's to have this workload

Maigret

This is patently false. One of my engineers justified a J ticket LHR-IST only last Friday.

Also, everywhere I have worked goes to great lengths to define exactly the criteria for justifying it.

Were it to be the case the entire economics of the airline industry would not be as it is today and 95% of FT wouldn't exist

pinniped

No, it sounds like it's not justified under your circumstance.

I've traveled under both policies in the past - I think there are reasonable argument for and against and, to be honest, this has never been a "make or break" thing for me. In fact, I've worked a couple places where I controlled my own travel budget and *could* have bought J but chose to buy Y so I could get more client visits in under the budget. But I could certainly see other situations/contracts where the client is willing to buy J and expects to have a full day of meetings on arrival in Europe and that's fine too...

Also, the situations where people are buying J for business travel usually involve a substantial corp discount - one that is greater on J tickets than Y. (I remember a company where our J discount on United was in the neighborhood of 40%, our full-Y discount was something like 25%, and all of the advance purchase fares were maybe 10-15% off.)

Redhead

I have to say that my company is great. I used to do LAX-GRU a ton. I always left LAX on a Saturday (in J), landing Sunday morning and had a full day to relax/recover. We do actual expenses for all purchases. There is a sheet of international expected costs for all three meals by about 50 major international cities. If you go over, you can explain why and so long as it isn't a regular thing or especially egregious, it isn't a big deal. The expense amounts are enough for a nice meal but not 5 star. Alcohol with meals, within the total meal cost, is covered but drinks alone in a bar are not. Snacks are not covered. I tend to eat breakfast at the hotel and therefore am always over the amount for breakfast, but I eat a lighter dinner and come in under cost, so no big deal.

We can expense reasonable tips and tolls without receipts. The one thing that bugs me is that to get cash when travelling overseas you have to use your personal bank card (no cash on corporate card) so you end up paying the ATM fee on your personal account and that is not expensable. Oh well, it's a few bucks a trip.

We get J on all international trips over 5 hours. So my trip LAX-JFK next week, though longer than 5 hours, is in Y. No biggie, I can use my personal upgrades.

We generally stay in nice hotels, no room sharing, like Hiltons or Starwoods.

pinworm

I worked for a company in the late 90's that cut the budget to such low levels that I could not actually do my job or eat.

I was expected to visit 28 US states on 1500 dollars by the end of it. Per month!

I quit that job. So did many many others!

HelloKittysMum

A few contributions - I had a recent expense claim refused because there was no receipt for £13 of tube / bus fares because I had used my Oystercard (but a colleague had £150 of taxis for same journeys approved because they had a receipt)

When my husband worked in Internal Audit for a major PLC staff were given a modest per diem to cover accomodation and meals so staff used to stay in crappy digs sharing rooms (there was a list that they shared) and pocket the difference. Comapny went over to receipted reimbursement only so costs went up significantly as staff all claimed what they were entitled to (single room, meals etc).

I travel to Asia and Africa a lot and have started to say that I will not stay in a hotel without room service - I often get back to the hotel at 9.30pm+ and the hotel restaurant finishes at 10 and so as a woman travelling alone I really don't want to have to go wandering the streets of Saigon that late to find dinner. Latest idea is for us to stay in an appartment owned by our client (in Sri Lanka) and they will get a cook to bring food in. I don't want to stay in a strange appartment in a strange city.

(oh and needless to say senior managers fly first and always via Dubai as they have status)

Oh and we are permitted to not come into the office for one day after we arrive back (long haul, 20+hrs, economy class) so I can leave home on Friday night, fly to Vietnam, work five days, leave Saturday night, arrive home Sunday and I can stay off on Monday (jetlagged) so I miss two weekends and get nothing back.