medic51vrf

Agreed. However, the point I was making (as an American dual national who has lived on 4 continents and worked on 6) is that many Americans are incredibly "Americocentric" and think that EVERYTHING relates to the USA, even on the WORLD WIDE web. It doesn't.

One example was the one I made regarding ALL companies and the IRS. Another example would be of a friend of mine from Arizona who recently proudly said he was going on his first "foreign" trip... To Hawaii!!!

There's nothing wrong with how things are done in the US (in general) but they are exacly that- how things are done IN THE USA. However, there are another 195 (+/-) countries in the world who do things in their own way.

B747-437B

A blanket ban on calls longer than 10 minutes when roaming, enforced by an automatic disconnect by the carrier.

A total nightmare when trying to participate in a conference call. At the 10 minute mark, half the participants began dropping out and dialling in again a few minutes later.

BOShappyflyer

Ha, that is kind of funny. There was someone whom I used to work with and we were just talking about vacations in general. I randomly asked what places he has traveled to, and he seriously said he's only traveled in the US and has no intention of ever traveling outside of the US.

Often1

Many companies prefer to pay for car service above rental for liability reasons. Some of the posts in this thread look only at the $ at the bottom of the expense voucher, not at the company's bottom line.

Good management means that not every flight is the cheapest. For example, a downtown DC business might well pay a premium to fly someone xDCA rather than xBWI because it's a 10-minute cab ride to DCA and 45 mins (w/o traffic) to BWI. On the round-trip, an hour of a senior person's time can be a lot more than a couple of hundred dollar fare difference.

ryanbryan

And again, I think you misread it, as I don't think the person was claiming that everyone in the world should or would refer to the IRS. The comment was made in response to other (American) posters.

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pinniped

Wow, sensitive much?

My point was that there are standard, external sources for per diem rates that industry typically deems reasonable. In the US, it's an IRS table (although I think the underlying research is likely done by someone else, probably GSA and/or the State Department). If a firm used these rates, their clients would at least find them credible.

A company based in, say, the UK could probably reference a similar external source for both British and worldwide cities.

It's not about using the laws (America's or anyone else's) to justify policy - it's simply that a firm could move to a per diem approach and use data already freely available.

Do you have an example of this? I'm mainly thinking of the per diem rate for everything except the hotel and transportation. So days of travel wouldn't affect things *too* much. I'm assuming assignments that are still in a hotel - not ones where the company is temporarily relocating you to an apartment/condo.

I guess on #2, that's one reason I'd want to find a credible external source of per diem rates that the industry typically accepts. Does Canada's revenue agency provide guidance?

On #3, I'd say "that's competition". If it's just about cost, independent consultants are already going to beat your pants off on the underlying bill rate. Any per diem advantage they also gain is just a drop in the bucket. The large firm is competing on their broader capabilities, frameworks, products, and expertise anyway. (I've worked for 4 different consulting firms in my career - one small one, one regional/sort of large one, and two large multinational ones. I've been on both ends...trying to sell as the low-cost guy, basically staff aug, and trying to sell as the full-service provider.)

WHBM

Not the case because, as discussed previously, there are tax reasons why this approach just doesn't exist in the UK, and many other countries. Furthermore, it seems people are stating that it doesn't cover travel or hotel. There's actually very little left apart from these; the cost of meals (which are more commonly included in hotel rates anyway, particularly breakfast) is highly dependent on the hotel selected, which in turn is normally driven by close proximity to the client - it being quite standard to choose the one which is walking distance from their offices.

Tomphot

Had a field tech who needed to inspect some outside equipment, it had been raining hard and the yard was very muddy. He went to Walmart and bought some rubber boots - after the inspection, he left them in the foremans office and told them to use them again in the future.
When his boss got the expense report, he was told that the company doesn't pay for boots.
1 month later, he submits another lengthy expense report - on the outside, he put a yellow sticky note saying "Find the boots".

gooselee

This. Luckily, I now have a new boss who has given blanket approval to book when/how I need to, and "just don't do anything ridiculous" - which I don't.

Ugh. We did this too until about a year ago. To compound it, the amounts were ridiculous - breakfast $7, lunch $10, dinner $13. And this applied universally. With most of my travel to NYC, it meant I was restricted to a couple slices of pizza and a cup of water for dinner if I wanted to stay within budget (which I learned, I didn't actually need to do - see below). Things are marginally better now - we get $35/day, no longer restricted per meal. The only thing that makes it manageable is that I can usually get breakfast free via hotel status. And alcohol is a no-no to the point where people have trouble getting receipts approved that say "Margherita Pizza"...

The most ridiculous thing about all our rules is that they don't actually restrict anything. Our expense reports flag when your hotel/air/meals are over a certain amount, but you just put in a note that says "reasonable cost" or something silly and it floats right on through. I know people who have regularly booked air/hotel at double or triple our limits for years without so much as someone blinking...

Hotels: Roommates for lower level staff, unless they claim to be uncomfortable with that arrangement. This extends to a push for people to check on when others are visiting HQ or branch offices and finding random others to share rooms with. Guess how many of our staff remain comfortable with the arrangement.

Receipts: We're getting better. Used to be similar to what someone else said. Scan and attach. Then tape them to sheets of paper, label them, and snail mail back to HQ. Then they'd confirm them, rubber stamp them, and snail mail copies back to you to keep with your printed report. We're finally at the point where they'll just take the scans with no mailing, though they print them out on their end (and I like to keep them stapled together myself until any reimbursements clear - but that's on me). This actually seems reasonable except it came with a policy about...

Boarding passes: Must print paper boarding passes. Must have each pass initialed by TSA (you figure out how this works for connections...). Must submit each BP as a "receipt" that you physically took the flight. Nevermind that you actually showed up at your destination, performed work, and incurred other documented expenses there. And it's a disaster for the poor souls who choose to fly WN, where they collect your BP at the front of the cattle line. If they forget to print two boarding passes and use the one TSA did NOT initial to board, they need to get "exception documentation" from the airline.

Best story, though, is from my wife from a few years ago - though it's not completely a travel policy story. Boss asked her to attend a training that was 3 hours away by car - four people were asked to attend. Because the company was paying for the training (and only insofar as the registrations were included with a major software purchase), and because it would ultimately benefit the employees professional knowledge, no travel allowances would provided. Her boss suggested that they drive there and back each day (for a four day training) and just switch who's personal vehicle was being used. The kicker? Because they wouldn't be performing their regular duties while attending a professional development opportunity, they were asked to use vacation days for that week, as well.

As luck would have it, she was already planning to give her notice later that week, at which point she mentioned that they would also need to find someone else to attend the training. From what we heard later, the software implementation was a complete disaster, which seemed to match the company.

Science Goy

Well, it can't be that hard to fake that illegible magic marker scribble.

gooselee

Shhhhh....

mecabq

The U.S. State Department provides per diem rates (hotel and meal/incidental costs) for every place in the world. Though the purpose of these is for official Federal government travelers, many non-U.S. companies (including mine) use them as benchmarks -- they are comprehensive, on the frugal side of reasonable, and maintained all the time via local market surveys.

I am sure that other government agencies in other countries maintain similar lists, but the simple fact that the U.S. State Department is probably the organization in the world whose size, geographic breadth, and resources make it best-positioned to calculate such rates. There is no need to grind your axe at an "Americocentric" approach. It's logical. It would be silly for a company to waste money compiling such a list when they can get it for free (courtesy of the American taxpayer) on the internet. Worst case, set your per diem rate at X% (e.g., 125%) of the U.S. State Department rate.

As for the main topic of this thread, I have been lucky to work for companies with pretty common-sense travel policies. My last company reimbursed meals on a per diem basis; my current company bases it on actuals, with no employee alcohol allowed to be reimbursed. This seems totally reasonable to me, as do our prohibitions on pay-per-view movies, minibar expenses, and laundry for short trips.

I feel fortunate; there are some pretty shocking requirements posted here.

vmsea

Where can you find this list in the US?

sparkchaser

US per diem rates

US State Department per diem rates for the rest of the world

FlyerTalker68098

I travel around the UK... much more of a road warrior so limited experience however work wont pay for lunch. Only Dinner & Breakfast - anything in between from a coffee to a sandwich is at your own expense.