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Rant on deplaning

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Old Nov 5, 2012 | 9:49 am
  #181  
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Originally Posted by zitsky
Translation = me first.
Translation: I don't know where sethb actually sits on planes, so I'm going to misinterpret his post to his detriment.

The fact is, I generally sit near the front, so would likely usually take slightly longer to disboard if my scheme were used; however, when I was in the back, I would get off much faster (as would everybody else on average), so I prefer that.

But zitsky apparently prefers to invent reality. Too bad reality doesn't cooperate.
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Old Nov 5, 2012 | 9:55 am
  #182  
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Originally Posted by BuildingMyBento
I'm familiar with that daily occurrence in China, though that doesn't bother me as much as the jet bridge controllers who just can't seem to get it. In Japan they're so efficient about the motions more than 900/hour, but in the NYC-area, what's going ON $10/hour to start ?
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Old Nov 5, 2012 | 12:03 pm
  #183  
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900 jpy isn't that much more than $10 USD; and comparing (average?) rates vs. starting pay isn't fair.
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Old Nov 6, 2012 | 1:15 pm
  #184  
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Originally Posted by psusaver
I like your arrogance in your knowledge, but I am not going to pay for it
Then you get the simple version.

Look at things from the viewpoint of the doorway. At any given time, either a passenger or a gap is present. When all the passengers have passed through, everybody is deplaned. The time when that happens is the time for all passengers + gaps.

Therefore, to get the last passenger off soonest (which also means the minimum average time) the procedure should minimize gaps.

The cause of gaps is the front passenger in the aisle not moving forward. If he stops for (say) 10 seconds, during which 2 seconds-worth of other passengers enter the aisle, then 8 seconds of gap is created. Since the goal is to minimize gaps, the first passenger in the aisle should stop only if the passenger(s) will enter the aisle quickly enough to avoid gaps (which, basically, doesn't happen; and quadruply not if they enter the aisle and then stop to retrieve their luggage).

On the other hand, if priority goes to the passenger already in the aisle, then they will all walk off (no gaps); meanwhile, the passengers in back will have empty space in the aisle which they can enter while they retrieve their luggage (if necessary) and then join the line moving forward. Still no gaps. Any time a gap forms (e.g. a passenger in row 25 stands in the aisle retrieving a suitcase while the line moves forward) there's space for others to enter and fill that gap.

Therefore, the total time occupied by gaps will be lessened (almost to 0), and therefore the time at which the last passenger exits will be as early as possible.
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Old Nov 6, 2012 | 4:14 pm
  #185  
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Originally Posted by psusaver
*Except*..in numerous cases, the person in the aisle and the window person are traveling together ( in 2x2 configs with 1 aisle) or there are many other family type combinations that window and aisle would want to leave together. have you accounted for that Mr/Ms. concentration camp manager?
Meet in the jetway or right outside it. Just because you're in a relationship/married to the other person doesn't mean you have to escourt them everywhere. I've done that with my father on an international flight. I had an aisle seat, he had a middle seat.
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Old Nov 6, 2012 | 4:16 pm
  #186  
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Originally Posted by psusaver
Perhaps you can cite scientific studies that use queuing theory and have simulated this problem.
Also you might want to correct your unwillingness to book flights with enough connection time in between. Accept responsibility for missing your connection, the universe does not revolve around you.
I'll do that when the airline accepts responsibility and strives to handle irrops without delays.
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Old Nov 6, 2012 | 4:19 pm
  #187  
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Originally Posted by ALittleSurreal
I know I am gaining maybe 4? minutes by doing that, but after reading this thread, I discover that this is very obnoxious and rude.

IS IT very rude? Wouldn't people understand that others have very short connections to catch? Should I not worry about it?
Depends on how you view it. I think its very rude when short connections are made worse by this problem. I wouldn't worry about it. There are far worse deals when flying that people do. I do the exact same thing when flying. I only have one backpack, and thats what sparked the rant. I have one backpack which is a grab and go type deal, while most of the other people have to get their entire house out of the bins etc.

Also I'm assuming by CTL you meant CLT. CTL is in Australia [which would have a 90min MCT, not a 45] There are multiple MSY-CLT direct flights with USAir-Express

Last edited by monksy; Nov 6, 2012 at 4:36 pm
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Old Nov 6, 2012 | 4:32 pm
  #188  
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Originally Posted by psusaver
I like your arrogance in your knowledge, but I am not going to pay for it.
This problem is a well studied one and the airline industry has supported research by computer scientists on this problem. There are published results available.
But when <b>YOU</b> felt strongly about it, you would have gotten more support for your statement if you had cited some peer reviewed work, than touting your own back of the envelope. I don't disagree that aisle-->middle--> window deboarding is one of the most efficient ways to do it, but can you persuade a mass of people? Can you persuade persuade people to drive at more efficient speeds or heck, drive around roundabouts?
A few things. I've got a masters, and was a PHd Candidate. 1. Good research is hard to find. Its not like you can query google for exactly what you want and have it return EXACTLY what you were wanting. 2. Simulations take quite a bit of time.

I considered creating a NetLogo simulation of this to prove/disprove my point, just for the argument. But, that would take a lot of work, and my time is valuable.

Also, my suspicion is that with much of the research performed, they aren't accounting for random delays in getting baggage, having baggage stored behind them. Also, I doubt they considered people standing up and prepping to exit before there was an option to leave [before the door is open, but the plane is at the jetway]

Last edited by monksy; Nov 6, 2012 at 4:40 pm
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Old Nov 7, 2012 | 1:35 am
  #189  
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"zippering" out of a plane....

Originally Posted by sethb
People generally leave front to back. This is inefficient. Look at it from the viewpoint of the doorway: at any given time, there is either a person or a gap walking through the doorway. The plane is empty when all the passengers have left. This happens earliest when there are fewer gaps walking through the doorway.

When a passenger stops the line behind him (delaying 50+ people) in order to let one person in front of him into the aisle, and that person stops to take down a suitcase, there is a long gap leaving the plane. Repeating this tremendously increases the total time until all pax are off the plane.

If all the people in the aisle leave without stopping, then others (after they pass) can get down their luggage without creating gaps. This speeds up overall exiting.

It would also allow the airline to turn the plane around faster, leading to fewer cascading delays or more efficiency and higher profits/lower fares.
That doesn't quite work, except for the aisle people. Considering they exit from front to back, the aisle will only be clear once the aisel people from the last row have disembarked. The middle and/or window people in the last row are the first ones to be able to get into the aisle to retrieve their bags, but they'll have to wait for everyone in front of them to have done the same, before they can disembark in an orderly fashion.
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Old Nov 7, 2012 | 3:05 am
  #190  
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I've found the following:

Economy is usually a free-for-all. Someone may let you out. Others times, you just sit there and watch 200 people go past you. If I'm on the aisle, I'll always offer anyone inside the opportunity to get up if they want.

Business/First: Generally these exit row by row. Never had a time where the people behind didn't wait for the rows in front to exit first even on US airlines.
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Old Nov 7, 2012 | 8:30 am
  #191  
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Originally Posted by marcwdebeer
That doesn't quite work, except for the aisle people. Considering they exit from front to back, the aisle will only be clear once the aisel people from the last row have disembarked. The middle and/or window people in the last row are the first ones to be able to get into the aisle to retrieve their bags, but they'll have to wait for everyone in front of them to have done the same, before they can disembark in an orderly fashion.
It wouldn't work that way. Once the aisle has moved forward, the last row aisle is clear, and someone would enter it and move forward immediately (or enter it and get his suitcase down, creating a gap in front of him, which would be entered by someone from the row in front, etc.)
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Old Nov 7, 2012 | 3:29 pm
  #192  
 
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The best way I've seen was when the FA's announced that we were a bit behind schedule and some passengers had very tight connections. They requested everyone to remain seated to allow those with connections leaving in under 45 minutes to leave first. People (for the most part) listened and those who got up first, got up and moved their butts. The rest of us then deplaned by rows, front to back, as normal.

That let the people who were in a race against the clock get out and start running for their connections while the rest of us could be polite and let people out of their seats without delaying someone behind us.
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Old Nov 8, 2012 | 12:29 pm
  #193  
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Originally Posted by Flying Redhead
The best way I've seen was when the FA's announced that we were a bit behind schedule and some passengers had very tight connections. They requested everyone to remain seated to allow those with connections leaving in under 45 minutes to leave first. People (for the most part) listened and those who got up first, got up and moved their butts. The rest of us then deplaned by rows, front to back, as normal.

That let the people who were in a race against the clock get out and start running for their connections while the rest of us could be polite and let people out of their seats without delaying someone behind us.
I've been in the same situation. The problem is you don't know if all the people who get up actually have tight connections. They might just want to get off the plane but don't want to listen to the FA's about waiting.
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Old Nov 8, 2012 | 5:28 pm
  #194  
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See earlier post. The tight connection deplaning priority plan fails.

There is a reason scientists and engineers don't run the world.
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Old Nov 8, 2012 | 8:08 pm
  #195  
 
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Originally Posted by monksy
Depends on how you view it. I think its very rude when short connections are made worse by this problem. I wouldn't worry about it. There are far worse deals when flying that people do. I do the exact same thing when flying. I only have one backpack, and thats what sparked the rant. I have one backpack which is a grab and go type deal, while most of the other people have to get their entire house out of the bins etc.

Also I'm assuming by CTL you meant CLT. CTL is in Australia [which would have a 90min MCT, not a 45] There are multiple MSY-CLT direct flights with USAir-Express
Sorry, yes, I meant CLT. I've found that most direct flights MSY-CLT are expensive, so I usually book cheaper with the connection.

Okay, I took the trip. When I first booked the flight there were no front seats showing as available. When it was time to check-in online they gave the option to change seats. There were seats now showing available in the front, so I paid the required $9 and got a seat closer to the front, (an aisle seat like the first time). I also bought myself a rolling backpack that fit under the seat in front of me. I don't carry a purse on a plane so didn't even have to juggle that.

We landed. I rolled the backpack out as soon as the seat belt sign went off, stood up (at my place) and exited minutes later. It worked great! Got to my other gate about 10 minutes before they started boarding!

Added bonus- I love the rolling backpack in my constant quest to pack lighter and lighter!
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