Aggressive tip requests
May 11, 2012, 1:15 pm
#46
Join Date: Dec 2010
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Since Igor718 doesn't own the restaurant in question, I don't see why it's any of his concern how much the waiters' are getting paid.
And why shouldn't he go out to dinner if he doesn't want to tip as much as you like to? Unlike the bill itself, which is the price you agree to pay when you order the meal, a tip is a voluntary gratuity.
And why shouldn't he go out to dinner if he doesn't want to tip as much as you like to? Unlike the bill itself, which is the price you agree to pay when you order the meal, a tip is a voluntary gratuity.
It's sort of like being on a bus when an elderly person or pregnant woman boards. The bus is full, there are no seats and you have a seat. Common sense and etiquette is to give up your seat for one of those people. However, there is no law about giving up your seat. It's voluntary.
My guess is that the "tips are voluntary" crowd are the same people who wouldn't give up that seat for an elderly or pregnant woman.
Someone's livelihood depends on that tip.
May 11, 2012, 1:21 pm
#47
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Also (as an aside), in some countries it is required to give up one's seat. In France, for example, there's a hierarchy of people who are entitled to the accessible seats on public transport. You can contrast that with the British approach, where the signs say things like, "Please consider giving up your seat for someone who needs it more than you do", or the US, where I imagine it's left to people's commonsense completely.
But I don't think it's safe to assume that the person who doesn't leave a big tip in an expensive restaurant will also not "give up his seat for someone that needs it more than he does".
May 11, 2012, 1:23 pm
#48
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It's sort of like being on a bus when an elderly person or pregnant woman boards. The bus is full, there are no seats and you have a seat. Common sense and etiquette is to give up your seat for one of those people. However, there is no law about giving up your seat. It's voluntary.
Yeah, but in New York if you don't give up your seat for the disabled (and they count pregnancy as short term disabled) the $50 fine is not voluntary.
May 11, 2012, 1:36 pm
#49
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I'm not sure if the overly emotional part at the end of your post is a joke, but I said you "should" because a) it is customary in the US, b) it's considered appropriate to adapt to the customs of the place in which you live/visit, and c) wages for waitstaff are based on expected tip income.
May 11, 2012, 1:56 pm
#51
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Could you imagine if tipping didn't exist and you were the guy tasked with selling the idea to people?
"OK...so let me get this straight... if I go out and pay a restaurant $150 for a couple of steak dinners and a couple of bottles of wine, I should then pay someone an extra $30 on top of that for taking our orders to the kitchen and then carrying that same food 75 feet from our kitchen to the table?"
"OK...so let me get this straight... if I go out and pay a restaurant $150 for a couple of steak dinners and a couple of bottles of wine, I should then pay someone an extra $30 on top of that for taking our orders to the kitchen and then carrying that same food 75 feet from our kitchen to the table?"
May 11, 2012, 2:01 pm
#52
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May 11, 2012, 2:05 pm
#53
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Dominos delivery to house. $18 and change. I give the driver $3 and he says "I'll take that one" and proceeds to yank my $10 bill out of my hand and hands me back the $3.
I was too stunned to do anything. A subsequent phone call to Dominos got me free pizza for a month out of it, though!
I was too stunned to do anything. A subsequent phone call to Dominos got me free pizza for a month out of it, though!
May 11, 2012, 2:13 pm
#54
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As someone who has historically tipped 15-20% (for decent service) out of regard for our custom here in the US...
and as someone who recently discovered (yes, I realize I should have already known) that my home state of California is one of many where wait staff are required to be paid at least minimum wage...
and as someone who realizes that the whole custom for tipping wait staff is based on the fact that they DON'T make minimum wage so the tips are designed to get them to at least that level...
and as someone who knows that the wannabe actor who's taking my order will give me the stink eye if I don't tip him 20% so he can make much more than anyone actually thinks he's making...
...I can't wait to go to Japan.
and as someone who recently discovered (yes, I realize I should have already known) that my home state of California is one of many where wait staff are required to be paid at least minimum wage...
and as someone who realizes that the whole custom for tipping wait staff is based on the fact that they DON'T make minimum wage so the tips are designed to get them to at least that level...
and as someone who knows that the wannabe actor who's taking my order will give me the stink eye if I don't tip him 20% so he can make much more than anyone actually thinks he's making...
...I can't wait to go to Japan.
May 11, 2012, 2:17 pm
#55
Join Date: Feb 2012
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Someone's livelihood depends on that tip.
But in the end, just as it is not selfish of me to not support the billions of poor people around the world, there is nothing selfish about not giving a large tip. IMO a tip should be given based on service, not on the waiters' income.
May 11, 2012, 2:18 pm
#56
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I'm so glad pizza joints take credit cards now. They build in the mandatory service charge of course (and I don't fight that), but the CC's have eliminated the old pizza driver "I don't have change" routine or its first cousin, the "let me slowly wander back out to my car to slowly look for change" routine.
The reality for waiters in the U.S. is that it's firmly entrenched in the culture. It's universally accepted as a practice; therefore not doing it for reasons unrelated to the waiter's service really isn't fair.
Even if you think the entire process is wrong and that the demand curve for waitstaff talent should be based completely upon a base wage, that's not reality. If that *was* reality, we'd undoubtedly see a higher base cost for the food, so in a way the ability to tip empowers the customers in a way.
Thus, using that power judiciously (e.g., not tipping sh***y service or being overly generous for great service) is a fair thing, but simply saying "I'm not tipping because I don't like the economic model" is unkind.
The reality for waiters in the U.S. is that it's firmly entrenched in the culture. It's universally accepted as a practice; therefore not doing it for reasons unrelated to the waiter's service really isn't fair.
Even if you think the entire process is wrong and that the demand curve for waitstaff talent should be based completely upon a base wage, that's not reality. If that *was* reality, we'd undoubtedly see a higher base cost for the food, so in a way the ability to tip empowers the customers in a way.
Thus, using that power judiciously (e.g., not tipping sh***y service or being overly generous for great service) is a fair thing, but simply saying "I'm not tipping because I don't like the economic model" is unkind.
May 11, 2012, 2:20 pm
#57
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I don't know the entire history of tipping but I'm not sure this is the correct cause-effect relationship.
May 11, 2012, 2:25 pm
#58
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Whatever snide comments you may care to make I will stick by my dictum. Oh yes: I am self-employed and fee earning if that makes any difference to your jibes.
May 11, 2012, 2:28 pm
#59
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May 11, 2012, 2:42 pm
#60
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As said before the waiter is serving fewer tables with less turnover. Therefore he/she depends on the 15 to 20 percent of the higher cost meals to make a decent wage. Out of the $50 dollars you gave your waiter I would not be surprised if he took home around $30 after taxes and tipping out. If you can afford $400-$600 dinners you can afford to leave an appropriate tip.
