And some people act like big shots in front of their buddies by going out to eat at a high end restaurant but not tip what they should. After all, who really knows besides the waiter what you left for a tip?

And I'm sure in that scenario the owner would never even consider raising prices to make up for that lost income. Because losing 15% income is nothing to such a huge margin industry like the restaurant business.

Actually the title of the thread reminded me of a more recent episode with a NY taxi driver of Nigerian extraction. It was about 8PM, so I was hit for the flag as well as the two surcharges and he not only took the slowest possible route, hitting 7 lights seemingly on purpose when he should have hit 3 max by changing avenues every two blocks and avoiding clear avenues, but was having a loud and animated conversation on his cell phone the entire time. The fare came to about $9, I gave him a ten and asked him for a receipt, he refused and said that he would not because I was "not tipping him enough" and that I should be tipping him "at least $2". I asked him why exactly? he had taken me less than 10 blocks, had done so in the worst possible way, almost half the fare was the flag and fees and he had driven like crap, his taxi was dirty and smelled and he was on the phone the whole way. He tried to claim that he did not keep the flag, etc (AN ABSOLUTE LIE, NY taxi drivers work on a fixed shift system, they pay for a shift and keep the entire fare). I cut it short called the TLC, at which point he instantly gave me my receipt and then drove off. Istill reported him.

Yea, but that 3.5% means a 25% loss in income for the water.

Good one!

I will also add many restaurants have a 5-8% tip out. So the first 5-8% the actual server doesn't get. This goes to the hostess, bussers and cooks. So if you leave a $50 tip on a $500 meal the waiter may end up with less then a $15 in their pocket.

Agree. The "appropriate" tip amount seems to be creeping ever upward. I remember a time when 10% was the norm, then 15%, now 18-20%. In another decade, we'll probably be at 25%. Frankly, I feel like anything between 10-20% is acceptable.

Had dinner in Thai restaurant in Atlanta.

Poor table for two , I chalked off to busy period, after all was there to eat good food.

The Thai waitress ignored us for a time, finally took the order without paying attention to request for one mild and one very hot. Delivered it luke warm. Request for extra hot sauce (standard fare at all Thai)was ignored , delivered almost at the end.

Paid the check, NO TIP. Owner /manager chased us saying we forgot to tip, said no we remembered not to tip for the lousy service !

Seems those with the "proper 20 % tip" crowd who may be trying to assuage their "guilt" do spoil these servers into expecting 20 no matter what.

Well, something would have to give somewhere if the culture of tipping changed. (Sort of a moot point because the gradual change is in the direction of higher tips.) It'd be a mix of both: attempting to charge higher prices to customers and attempting to pay the staff just enough to not lose the workforce needed to operate the restaurant. He'd be jacking with both the labor demand curve and the demand curve for his own product. (He'd find out fast which one was more elastic!)

At this point, I've resigned myself to the fact that the tip is so culturally ingrained that it's effectively embedded into both of these demand curves. The waiter at a star-rated restaurant got there in theory because he's the best at his craft. The kid at Applebee's probably doesn't have the same abilities, but may later acquire them. If I tip them both 15-20% when I receive normal service, then I figure I'm participating in this particular economy in the way that's expected of me.

Some might say "Who cares if the waiter at Charlie Trotter's is any better than the one at Applebee's? I'm just there for the food." I do care...and I think most people who eat at an outstanding restaurant do. Enough people care that those are probably difficult jobs to get, typically staffed by very good professional waiters, and hopefully they're paid well for it.

If I get awful service, that's another story. I've left 0-10%, spoken with the manager, and even had cases where I didn't pay for a meal. This is another category aside from our general culture of tipping...gets into what your general reaction to getting a bad or broken product of any kind is.

It seems any mention of tipping is going to bring the same old debate.

I don't have an "aggressive" tip request story but I've had awkward situations when getting hotel room service (this could also be filed under biggest hotel pet peeve). The room service menu states the inflated food prices, some kind of service charge AND a delivery charge. I assume the delivery charge is the tip for the person who brings me the food but I ask just to make sure (not wanting the person bringing the food to get stiffed). The three times I've asked I've been told that they see none of that money and then they stand there expectantly. Then the sucker I am, I of course give them a few bucks even though I've already paid a service and delivery charge.

I don't ask anymore but still feel the need to tip. My reasoning is that I know when people bring something to your door they expect some cash, even if it's wrong. And if I "stiff" them, there's a good chance that it will quickly circulate among the employees that the people in room 2112 are cheap and the level of service will suffer.

I pay according to the services provided. If I find a person performing extra ordinarily, I tip him. I don't tip on prescribed services as these are paid through the prices of meal or any other thing you got. I also don't tip for bad services if I have to wait table.

Your logic is so flawed I don't know where to begin. First, restaurant owners pay below minimum wage because it is legal. There are few if any waiters making a fixed wage of $10/hr. Owners will continue to pay their staff below minimum wage regardless of how much you tip. Second, owners pay their staff the same fixed hourly wage if there tip percentage is 5% or 25%. As another poster stated if you don't want to tip appropriately don't go out to dinner.

Where did you get an idea that I was treating a friend??? We split the bill.

oh and stop rolling your eyes :-)
let it go.

How much one tips is his or her business. I simply shared a story. If you feel that I am wrong, ... don't do what I did.

Last time a waiter asked for a larger tip (was somewhere in the 10-15% range), I took the whole tip back.
This sense of entitlement for something that began as a way to give the waiter a little extra money for great service is astonishing.

Since Igor718 doesn't own the restaurant in question, I don't see why it's any of his concern how much the waiters' are getting paid.
And why shouldn't he go out to dinner if he doesn't want to tip as much as you like to? Unlike the bill itself, which is the price you agree to pay when you order the meal, a tip is a voluntary gratuity.

The thousands of threads on tipping on Flyertalk are usually some of the funniest.

There are pretty much three kids of people in the world.

• People who hate tipping and will look for any reason not to leave anything
• People who will always tip 15% no matter what, calculating it to the nearest penny on a calculator
• People who feel tips are earned, and will adjust up or down based on the service they are provided

No amount of argument of somebody should or should not get more money because they carried a plate of lobster from the kitchen instead of the blue plate burger special will ever change anybody's position.

In all the years, I've never seen somebody say they were adjusting how they tipped based on what they were told in a thread here.

Nor will percentage based tipping, the norm for well over a hundred years ever change.

Waiters go to seminars to learn the tricks to ensure a good tip. How to know the customers who will tip and those who won't. A waitress knows drawing a smiley face on a bill raises the tip on average 20%. A waiter knows drawing a smiley face on a bill lowers their tip on average 10%.

This isn't some random thing, it's a well studied science.

And it's not going to change any time soon.

This happened to me a couple of months ago. I was at a rather fancy wedding in Toluca, Mexico. At the end the waiter who had been serving our table came up to me and rather aggressively demanded a tip. Not wanting to cause problems and not sure of the customs in that city (I'd been to weddings in other parts of Mexico where this didn't happen) I gave the guy 100 pesos. It was a wierd experience since typically this is covered in the total cost of the wedding.