WHBM

Hmmm. Was this Berlin-London 727 by United ?

Regarding the Air Gambia 707, this was a very odd operation. As stated, it did actually run through Gatwick, on the days that it actually ran to schedule.... Gambia became a bit of a popular holiday resort by 1990 at a handful of big Western-style hotels on the beach (the 1994 coup there knocked this) both B Cal and later the UK holiday airlines had run there. Air Gambia was somehow tied up with another operator called Omega Air, who had long-in-the-tooth 707s registered in a range of places, one in Gambia, others in Honduras, but were actually based in the UK out of Manston airport about 80 miles from London. Most of their 1990s 707 operation was cargo, and the passenger ones doing odd sub-charters for other operators short of capacity, using a band of otherwise retired UK 707 crews paid by the flight. One aircraft was fully painted up in Air Gambia livery, but whether it was the one on the run that week was a chance. Omega Air also owned quite a substantial 707/747 maintenance organisation at Manston, where all sorts of odd aircraft could be seen at times, often parked long term between operators, or being broken up for parts. I think their Air Gambia operations finished with the coup.

jlemon

35. Correct! And United was operating a couple of flights a day. Here are the scheds....

UA 921: Berlin Tegel (TXL) 07:00 - 08:00 London Heathrow (LHR)
Freq: Daily
Equip: B727-200

UA 955: Berlin Tegel (TXL) 08:25 - 09:30 London Heathrow (LHR)
Freq: Thursdays and Sundays only
Equip: B727-200

UA 933: Berlin Tegel (TXL) 08:25 - 09:30 London Heathrow (LHR)
Freq: Daily except Thursdays and Sundays
Equip: B727-200

WHBM

Yes. For 1993, who was that imbecile above who wrote Delta .... ah, I see it was me. Only two US and two UK carriers were allowed to run USA flights from Heathrow under the agreement at the time, longstanding it had been Pan Am and TWA of course, but around 1992 Pan Am sold their London flights out to United, and TWA to American.

United shipped over several of their US fleet of 727s for these odd European tag-ons, which seemed to spend much of their time parked together on the remote stands alongside the north runway at Heathrow. The operation didn't last too long. Delta meanwhile took over most of the rest of Pan Am's transatlantic operation, including a hub operation at Frankfurt, but I seem to recall that Delta paid pretty much the same for all this as United did just for Heathrow.

The old Pan Am cabin crew base at Heathrow was part of the United inheritance, and that still continues to this day, which is why (apparently) you will find UK cabin crew on many United services from London, including apparently just a few old stagers left from the Pan Am days.

WHBM

Honduras-registered Air Gambia 707 at the Omega base at Manston

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...323B_Hoppe.jpg

strickerj

jlemon

42. Well, Midway (JI) operated the Fokker 100 as well and they were doing so in 1994....

However, your guess of American is correct! Here's the sched...

AA 1149: Harrisburg (MDT) 7:03a - 7:58a Chicago O'Hare (ORD) 9:15a - 11:30a New Orleans (MSY)
Freq: Daily
Equip: Fokker 100
Service classes: F/Y
Meal services: Snack in F/Y HAR-ORD, Breakfast in F only ORD-MSY

BTW, this was the only flight operated by any airline with the Fokker 100 into New Orleans at this time.

And I'll say this about the New Orleans Saints....they are definitely not boring!

Final score in tonight's game: Saints 20, Eagles 14.

jlemon

WHBM, I can categorically state that the "i" word most definitely does not apply to you, sir.

And we once again thank you for your invaluable participation, knowledge and insights here on the OTAQ&D.

strickerj

jlemon

Yes, they had a slightly different name back then: the Aint's.......

YVR Cockroach

Thanks for the clarification I thought it was the LHR TATL rights that was the issue (not that it'd any benefit to fly the intra-European flights to LHR when the TATL flights left from LGW). I thought the intra-Europe rights for U.S airlines stemmed from Germany being under allied occupation and Berlin not being under the jurisdiction of the German governments, and were extinguished when the GDR was absorbed into the FRG. I knew someone who grew in Europe as his father flew 737s (-200s?) for PA. His father loved being home almost every night - one of the few flight crew jobs at PA where you could do that.

YVR Cockroach

I think there'd only be two candidates for this service at the time pre open skies) and the two-stop probably eliminates one. I am going to guess UA flying LGA-IAD-ORD-YVR with a 757-200.

jrl767

Seat 2A

Hmm... alright, wild guess time. On the possibility that this question would involve something out of the ordinary, I recall America West Express operating a Fokker 70 from PHX into DSM back about that time. I don't know about FAT, but let's go with America West Express operating the Fokker 70 via PHX.

By the way. greetings from Needles, California - home to Snoopy's brother Spike.

And hey now - how 'bout them Saints?!! 20-14 Who dat?!

jrl767

WHBM

Berlin until 1991 was a unique case, but the US carriers had a range of quite liberal rights within Europe, arising from their early days when flights hopped across the various points. The way the rights were written later allowed different airport combinations, and indeed different later carriers like Air Florida, to have the same, and were only really lost due to becoming uneconomic, and also difficult to organise. I think the last one of all at Heathrow was a United 767 which ran on to Brussels, given up maybe 15 years ago. Back in 1980, for example, both TWA (a 707) and Pan Am (a 747, continuing round the world) had earlier daily departures to Frankfurt than either BA or LH, and picked up some business traffic. It took a while for the Pan Am European 727 fleet run out of Berlin (though maintained at Frankfurt) to get moved on to change-of-gauge flights at Heathrow, probably late 1970s, until then it was the transatlantic aircraft working through. I can't recall TWA 727s at Heathrow, but they certainly had them elsewhere in Europe. Alexander Frater in "Beyond the Blue Horizon" wrote of getting a TWA 727 from Rome to Athens in 1985, which was continuing to Tel Aviv, and was fully booked with passengers from a TWA 747 arriving in Rome, but this was so late that the 727 was sent off in isolation, with half-a-dozen passengers.

Just in passing, the Berlin Corridor flights were controlled by the Allied Four Powers (UK, France, US, Soviet Union), and very specifically nothing to do with the FRG or GDR