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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion

Old May 26, 17, 2:13 am
  #10906  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A View Post
I join jlemon in thanking you for these questions, VH. They're exactly the type I love to see and will no doubt titillate the participants here if only a wee bit.

I was a guest at QANTAS's Captain's Club in Melbourne whilst flying Business Class aboard a 767-200 across the Tasman to Christchurch back in 1987. It was QF's Premium Class lounge back in the day.

Later that year, I flew First Class aboard your namesake Ansett 767-200 on a MEL-SYD-BNE routing. The Golden Wing was Ansett's excellent airport lounge, available to premium class passengers and - perhaps - via membership as well.

I'm going to guess that the Flight Deck was TAA's answer to the Golden Wing. Although I once logged a flight in First Class aboard a TAA 727-200, there wasn't time to visit the lounge.
Correct on all counts, the Captains Club and Flight Deck became the Qantas Club when Qantas subsumed TAA which by then had become Australian Airlines.

Yes, both Golden Wing and Flight Deck were First Class and membership lounges.
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Old May 26, 17, 10:55 am
  #10907  
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
LEG 5 - BWI - EWR (still looking for two airlines, each operating a different type of turboprop aircraft); BWI - LGA, AL, DH7 (still looking for one additional airline operating a turboprop)

I will throw in the towel on this last one if there are no more speculations by tomorrow (Thurs) evening
BWI-EWR turboprop options were AIr Virginia operating a Swearingen Metro and Holiday Airlines operating a Twin Otter
BWI-LGA the other turboprop operator was a Ransome Airlines, also flying a DHC-7
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Old Jun 3, 17, 9:20 pm
  #10908  
 
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WHBM here, conscious that I should find time to rejoin and chip in on one or two interesting items above. Seem to have been more than a little busy in recent months - our industry, like so many in the UK, seems to have been noticeably on the up for the last 12 months or so. And there is (not really alas) another whopper project coming. Meanwhile things advance on other fronts. For those who know of Little Miss WHBM, today was in the bicycle shop, buying a first bicycle. Great excitement, which led to running over the salesman's toes

Not a lot of flying done recently, and G-WHBM has also taken a bit of a back seat this year (I'm completely out of licence currency), although yesterday I did step off a BAe 146/RJ from Dublin at London City, enjoying that the last classic UK-built jetliner continues to roll along. Cityjet, the operator, seems to have had a new spring in its step after looking a bit shaky, unfortunately not with their LCY services, but in operating for various main carriers across Europe. There are new Sukhoi jets on order, which however require adaptation (as all types do) for the London City approach, apparently it will take to the end of 2018 to do this, in the meantime their 146 fleet, which are the old Northwest Airlink fleet, some of the last and most recent ones built, continue to roll along, very nicely and always on time. They got a new interior with Cityjet, with nice new leather seats, and while the national carrier here, BA, continues to be something of a national embarrassment and has even started charging for catering, Cityjet continue the proper style. Had an enjoyable gin & tonic (in Y) on the way back.

There are articles on the BBC website today that it's 50 years ago today since the black weekend of UK holiday flights. On Saturday evening 3 June 1967 two separate flights with elderly piston-engine aircraft left for the Mediterranean. An Air Ferry DC4 flying from its Manston (near London) base to Perpignan in France, right down on the Spanish border, crashed into a Mountain on approach there, having lost their positional awareness. Then a British Midland Canadair 4 (which is an uprated DC4 built in Canada) got into a fuel starvation difficulty, and also crashed in the centre of the Manchester suburb of Stockport on the Sunday morning, just a few miles from Manchester airport when returning from Palma. All on the Air Ferry, and almost all on the BMA, about 80 tightly packed passengers on each, were lost. At this time the holiday flight business probably ran to less than 30 aircraft, scattered across several lesser players, and to lose two within hours was an industry disaster. The major holiday tour operators, who had gone for bargain basement type cheap operators, moved very swiftly, and teamed up with airlines who could order new jets. The One-Eleven 500 was just coming along, likewise the first 737s, and by the next season the old piston aircraft had disappeared, with turboprops going very shortly afterwards. The British Midland Canadair fleet was instantly grounded and never ran again after that weekend.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ester-40095542

Hopefully WHBM will be able to chime in here as I'm sure he has much more information concerning this interesting flight where the passengers were treated to two sunrises while en route.
Maybe I'll chip in about the "Double Sunrise" when I get a further moment.

OK, a Quiz question. It's been a while. Shortly after walking in to the house yesterday from the Dublin plane, on a warm and cloud free evening, there was a very distant but somewhat familiar pulsing, droning sound outside, I stepped out, and there up high, very slow, lit on the port side by the setting sun, was a notable classic 4-engined propeller airliner making an intercontinental journey northeast-wards at 25,000 feet. I watched it for several minutes as the sound slowly disappeared. Any guesses what it was ?

Last edited by WHBM; Jun 4, 17 at 4:39 am
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Old Jun 4, 17, 9:05 am
  #10909  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post

For those who know of Little Miss WHBM, today was in the bicycle shop, buying a first bicycle. Great excitement, which led to running over the salesman's toes

There are articles on the BBC website today that it's 50 years ago today since the black weekend of UK holiday flights. On Saturday evening 3 June 1967 two separate flights with elderly piston-engine aircraft left for the Mediterranean.

Maybe I'll chip in about the "Double Sunrise" when I get a further moment.

OK, a Quiz question. It's been a while. Shortly after walking in to the house yesterday from the Dublin plane, on a warm and cloud free evening, there was a very distant but somewhat familiar pulsing, droning sound outside, I stepped out, and there up high, very slow, lit on the port side by the setting sun, was a notable classic 4-engined propeller airliner making an intercontinental journey northeast-wards at 25,000 feet. I watched it for several minutes as the sound slowly disappeared. Any guesses what it was ?
Welcome back, WHBM! And good Lord, Little Miss WHBM already on a bicycle! They certainly grow up quickly, don't they? Now if you can just keep her and her new bike off the runway over at LCY, all will be well.....

Looking forward to hopefully hearing more about the "Double Sunrise". There's certainly more to that story....

On a lighter note, we also observed another 50th year anniversary just a few days ago: the release of Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band by the Beatles back in 1967. Last evening, we watched an excellent documentary on public television (Louisiana Public Broadcasting) concerning the recording of this landmark album and it certainly brought back memories. It also brought to mind a flight taken from Maui by yours truly some years ago when George Harrison was living on the island. I had been visiting friends in upcountry Kula on the side of Haleakala and listening to the local FM rock station when it was announced that it was Mr. Harrison's birthday. The DJ wished him well and also alluded to a big birthday bash at George's residence on Maui. A few days later at OGG I boarded a DC-10-10 operated by United on my way home to San Luis Obispo county. As I was settling into my seat in first, a tall, long haired, rather spaced out looking character entered the front cabin. And after a moment or two, I recognized him: it was Mick Fleetwood. We chatted a bit later during the flight to LAX and I asked him if he had attended George Harrison's birthday party. He paused, smiled faintly and said something like "Well, you never know about these things, don't you?" which was followed by a wink.

Which brings us to your propeller quiz item. Of course, I have no bloody clue. So then, a wild guess: a Lockheed Constellation.

Last edited by jlemon; Jun 4, 17 at 2:08 pm
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Old Jun 4, 17, 5:23 pm
  #10910  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
Looking forward to hopefully hearing more about the "Double Sunrise". There's certainly more to that story.....
The "Double Sunrise" service between Perth WA and Colombo, Ceylon was a service managed by Qantas in the latter half of WW2. It was used as a link between Australia and the rest of the British Empire (India, East and South Africa, etc). Wikipedia says it was part of an air mail link to Britain, but that is not correct as the mail route had been broken across the Mediterranean. However, it did connect with the remnants of the BOAC "Horseshoe Route", operated by Short Empire aircraft, from Colombo through Cairo to Durban in South Africa.

The Consolidated Catalina, built initially in San Diego at the same plant that later did the Convair twin props, and later by other plants in the US and Canada, was the longest range aircraft around at the time, being a flying boat it could take a huge long run unrestricted by runway length and thus carry a big fuel load. The Australian Air Force RAAF got a good number, but had no experience at first of long overwater flights, so Qantas brought them from San Diego/Honolulu to Australia, and when the Double Sunrise started it was determined that civilian crews would be required, which used this experience. Contrary again to a number of accounts, the five Catalinas used were not Australian, but British, taken from the Royal Navy and operated with British civil registrations. The route passed within range of Jap air patrols from Indonesia, but passed through those areas at night; the existence of the operation was kept secret. Total airborne time was about 28 hours westbound. All five Catalinas survived the war. Later their routing was extended from the Colombo stop to Karachi, as BOAC were so short of pilots.

Here's a map and a certificate

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/thread...sunrise.34006/

In my library is a book "Croissants at Croydon" by the onetime General Manager of Air France in Britain, Jack Bamford, at London Croydon airport and elsewhere, right from the start in 1920 until he retired in 1960. When WW2 came along and the French service to Britain stopped he went into the RAF "for the duration" as was the British expression of the time, and ended up managing the Return Ferry Service that took pilots who delivered all the US-built aircraft to Britain back across the Atlantic. When Churchill visited Roosevelt in Washington (by ship) after Pearl Harbor there was a clandestine operation in darkest winter December 1941 to take government mail to the meeting, Bamford had to organise this then go with it, and took a Catalina from Prestwick to Halifax in Canada. His book has a fascinating extended description of the flight, also over 24 hours, including all its organisation, which (apart from all the icing issues) gives a good flavour of these huge overwater expeditions that the Cat was capable of. The whole book is a great account of 1920s-30s airline operation, up to this Catalina flight.

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/Croissant...12495215236/bd

Last edited by WHBM; Jun 4, 17 at 5:36 pm
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Old Jun 4, 17, 5:29 pm
  #10911  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
Which brings us to your propeller quiz item. Of course, I have no bloody clue. So then, a wild guess: a Lockheed Constellation.
Not a Connie. There's one operational in Europe which turns up at odd airshows. But what passed over me was an actual commercial flight.

50th year anniversary just a few days ago: the release of Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band by the Beatles back in 1967
Ah yes. Released summer 1967. School geography class field trip for the day. At lunchtime, sat in a classic English countryside field with our sandwiches and bottles of tepid lemonade, someone has brought a small transistor radio (cool in 1967) and we tuned to Radio Caroline. And I recall "She's Leaving Home" from the album came up, my first hearing of what is still one of my favourite tracks of theirs. What does this have to do with our thread ? Well, the entrepreneur behind "pirate radio" Radio Caroline, which broadcast from an offshore ship without any approval and knocked the then-monopolistic and dreary BBC's Radio productions for six, both in audience share and programme quality, subsequently got his hands on two Lockheed L-1649A Starliners, and was going to fly them in orbits at 30,000 feet over the North Sea transmitting television programmes, with commercials, to Britain. It never worked out, but would have been an interesting use of some old propliners.

Last edited by WHBM; Jun 4, 17 at 5:58 pm
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Old Jun 4, 17, 5:38 pm
  #10912  
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good to hear from you again!

Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
Not a Connie. There's one operational in Europe which turns up at odd airshows.
Breitling Super Constellation

Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
But what passed over me was an actual commercial flight.
a DC-6 perhaps?
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Old Jun 4, 17, 7:13 pm
  #10913  
 
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
a DC-6 perhaps?
Sorry jrl, not a DC6, no commercial ones of those left here either. Different fuel, and built in a different continent.
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Old Jun 5, 17, 12:53 am
  #10914  
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now that you say "different fuel" I would suspect you're referring to a turboprop rather than a recip, and "different continent" certainly implies Russia ... how about an Antonov AN-22
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Old Jun 5, 17, 2:16 am
  #10915  
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Welcome back, WHBM. We've certainly missed your presence here at the OTAQ&D, but your tale of flights aboard ex-NW BAe-146s went down like fine wine after a month in the desert and I do hope I'll get a chance to fly upon one with CityJet or SAA Airlink before they're retired for good.

As to that mysterious (to us at least) 4 engine prop flying overhead at 25000', any chance it could have been an IL-18?
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Old Jun 5, 17, 11:06 am
  #10916  
 
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
now that you say "different fuel" I would suspect you're referring to a turboprop rather than a recip, and "different continent" certainly implies Russia ... how about an Antonov AN-22
Originally Posted by Seat 2A
As to that mysterious (to us at least) 4 engine prop flying overhead at 25000', any chance it could have been an IL-18?
Close enough, chaps, and to save us working through all the old Soviet fleets, it was an Antonov 12 (same engines, props and sound as the Ilyushin 18), operated by an obscure Ukrainian company, and operating on this flight from Marrakesh in Morocco to Gothenburg in Sweden. It seemed to have come pretty much north from Africa to overhead the English Channel, then turned north-east for Scandinavia. Well over 50 years old now, it's nice to think it made the little dogleg in its route to show itself to us in London on a fine evening. They turn up in odd corners of Europe and Africa, generally run by operators from Ukraine or Bulgaria that you may never have heard of before. It may well have taken a United Nations load further into Africa, and have been returned to the home city of Volvo to move some automotive parts; perhaps they had picked up a back load of African dates for a Swedish fruit importer. That's all the sort of thing they continue turning up for. Surprising is that, mid-route on this lengthy voyage, let alone being audible at all, it's engine note penetrated into our living room. I've noticed this droning about old Soviet turboprops before, I guess their propeller synchronisers are no longer spot-on.

Last edited by WHBM; Jun 5, 17 at 12:45 pm
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Old Jun 5, 17, 6:41 pm
  #10917  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
Close enough, chaps, and to save us working through all the old Soviet fleets, it was an Antonov 12 (same engines, props and sound as the Ilyushin 18), operated by an obscure Ukrainian company, and operating on this flight from Marrakesh in Morocco to Gothenburg in Sweden.....
Ah, I thought it might have been a "Cub" (NATO-speak for the Antonov 12 and thus not a Piper product, of course).

Every once in awhile, one of these aircraft shows up at IAH. The last time I saw an Antonov 12 at Bush Intercontinental, it was parked adjacent to the FedEx ramp. What was it doing in Houston? Well, I have no idea.....but it was interesting to see it there, nonetheless.

And speaking of military-type aircraft (well, rotorcraft in this case), we just had six UH-60 Blackhawk helicopters roar over our home in formation at low level. Our cat, who was camped out in the front yard as they passed by, appeared to be rather unimpressed......
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Old Jun 6, 17, 8:46 pm
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New Quiz Items

Time for a new batch of quiz items!

Please limit your response to only one or two quiz items per day so that all may participate (except where noted). Thanks!

Here we go.....

1. In 1966 this airline's timetable featured an artist's rendition of a Caravelle in its livery. However, this air carrier was operating all of its international flights with Douglas DC-6 aircraft at the time. The airline in question, which was not based in the U.S. but was based in the western hemisphere, never operated the Caravelle but did eventually operate several jet aircraft types in later years. Name this air carrier.

2. What airline was operating Caravelle service into Jeddah, Saudi Arabia in 1968? ANSWERED

3. Also in 1968, this airline ran a print ad entitled "We'll rent you a set of wheels all week for $65." A car was not included with this offer. Name the airline that ran this ad and describe what the offer was.

4. How many Boeing 747 aircraft was Continental operating in 1972? ANSWERED

5. How many Boeing 727-100 aircraft was Continental operating in 1972?

6. TWA was operating Boeing 707-331 aircraft in 1980 with two different seating configurations. One version featured standard first and coach two class seating and the other a coach only single class seating configuration. With this in mind, answer all four of these questions: ALL ANSWERED

6A. How many first class seats were in the two class version?

6B. How many coach seats were in the two class version?

6C. How many coach seats were in the single class version?

6D. What did TWA call its B707-331 all Y seating configuration?

7. It's 1981 and you are in Stamford, Connecticut. Your friends have invited you to a big sailboat party on Friday evening in Freeport, Bahamas and you are planning to attend. You've ascertained that a nearby airport has a direct flight departing on Friday morning at 7:45 am that will get you into Freeport at 1:20 pm - plenty of time to make the party. This flight makes two intermediate stops en route. Identify the airport you'll be departing from, the airline, the two stops in the order in which they will be made and the equipment. ANSWERED

8. Now it's 1982 and you are in Savannah, Georgia. You need to travel to Hartford for a meeting the next morning and you've found a daily direct flight departing SAV at 3:35 pm that will get you into BDL at 8:35 pm with three intermediate stops being made en route. Name the air carrier you'll be flying on, the three stops in order and the aircraft.

9. What a deal! It's 1983 and you've found a flight from Dallas/Fort Worth to Washington National with a first class fare of only $139.50 one way. This flight operates every weekday and makes one stop en route. It also features a snack on the first leg and a full dinner service on the second leg. Identify the airline, the en route stop and the equipment.

10. Also in 1983, Air Illinois was operating BAC One-Eleven service on a very short route between two airports with a one way distance of approximately 75 miles. Name the two airports served by this flight. ANSWERED

11. In 1984, this airline was operating three nonstop flights every weekday between St. Petersburg, FL (PIE) and Atlanta (ATL). Identify the air carrier and the aircraft type.

12. Also in 1984, this air carrier was operating intrastate jet service within Texas and was also not operating any flights outside of the Lone Star State. Name the airline and the jet type.

13. Identify an airline that operated stretched BAC One-Eleven series 500 service into New Orleans (MSY). ANSWERED

14. What U.S. based airline operated "Red, White & Blue" service? Also explain what each color referred to in order to provide a complete answer. ANSWERED

15. Midwest Express configured its DC-9-10 aircraft with how many seats?

16. How many seats were there in first class on board Fokker F28 Fellowship series 1000 and series 4000 aircraft operated by USAir?

17. This airline operated international service with Fokker F28 Fellowship aircraft from an airport located in the southern U.S. The flight operated twice a week and did not serve Canada. Identify the airline, the departure airport in the U.S. and and the international destination served by this flight on a nonstop basis.

18. What year did United retire all of its Caravelle aircraft? ANSWERED

19. How many Caravelle aircraft was United operating when they were retired?

20. United operated its Caravelle aircraft for how many years? ANSWERED

Last edited by jlemon; Jun 8, 17 at 1:52 pm Reason: answer updates
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Old Jun 6, 17, 11:25 pm
  #10919  
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Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
18. What year did United retire all of its Caravelle aircraft?
I believe it was 1970

Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
19. How many Caravelle aircraft was United operating when they were retired?
the entire fleet numbered 20; I'd have to believe they went down to a handful once the 737s started coming on line in late 1968 ... so I'll guess five

Originally Posted by jlemon View Post
20. United operated its Caravelle aircraft for how many years?
10 years: first services were in 1961, last flight in 1970 as mentioned above
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Old Jun 7, 17, 1:05 am
  #10920  
 
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13. Identify an airline that operated stretched BAC One-Eleven series 500 service into New Orleans (MSY).
I would guess a couple, Cayman Airways and Lacsa. Several Caribbean and South American countries operated the stretched 500 series of the One-Eleven, but never any in the USA - BAC didn't even apply for FAA certification of it, for some reason.

2. What airline was operating Caravelle service into Jeddah, Saudi Arabia in 1968?
I would guess a few. The Caravelle had sold well in the area (although "well" could mean just a few aircraft).

All the North African countries. Kingdom of Libya Airlines (which I think it still was in 1968); Tunis Air; Air Algerie; Royal Air Maroc.

Then the Middle East. Alia of Jordan; Syrian Arab; MEA (apart from the last few days of 1968, as their whole Caravelle fleet was destroyed in December 1968 in the military skirmish at Beirut airport).

Some of these might operate an enhanced service into Jeddah during the time of the Hadj, the pilgrimage to Mecca, which is adjacent to Jeddah. This also used to form some considerable off-season charter work for about a month each year for the European holiday airlines. Although not a Caravelle, I was aware of a photo album of a Caledonian Airlines Bristol Britannia (and some crew) at Jeddah doing this work in 1968. I don't think, as you scroll down, the flight attendants would get away with those clothes in Jeddah nowadays. You Americans can maybe identify the old car alongside the Britannia in the main photo.

http://www.british-caledonian.com/Ca...rber_Pt_2.html

OK. Bonus question. There are two aircraft in the background of that main 1968 Britannia photograph in Jeddah. What are they and what are their operators (hint; one is more straightforward than the other !)

Last edited by WHBM; Jun 7, 17 at 2:12 am
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