jrl767

and the 80s of course ... DEN-ORD (or the reverse?) was the launch route for UA’s 767 in 1982

Seat 2A

Yours truly was a passenger aboard that flight. It was between Chicago and Denver on September 8, 1982. Ship 606 doing the honors.

Historical tidbit: The flight was originally scheduled to be operated with N605UA, named "City of Chicago". However, due to a mechanical issue of some nature with that aircraft, ship 606 was substituted. Ship 606 was originally named :"City of Denver" but as the aircraft launching the inaugural flight from Chicago, it was renamed "City of Chicago" with "City of Denver" subsequently going to ship 605.

So there ya go - a bit of seemingly innocuous esoterica for the day. Then again, you never know when this knowledge might win big for you on a game show or a call in radio program. Good luck!

jlemon

6. Well, I can think of several agricultural products that may have been shipped by air to the UK. Let's go with oranges.

Seat 2A

On a separate bit of good and bad news, I was booked to fly this evening between Denver and Chicago in Economy Plus aboard United 777-200 N772UA - A 25 year old bird that's number 5 off the assembly line. It is one of the oldest 777s still flying and I was really looking forward to logging a flight aboard her as I've already flown aboard line numbers 2,3 & 4. (Collect them all, I say!) So I check in this afternoon and what do you know, ship 772 has been replaced by N2645U, a 2.5 year old 777-300 that normally plies United's international routes. Well I've never flown aboard UA's -300 before (Indeed,[ it's been 18 years since I last logged a flight aboard a UA 777 ) and since it was outfitted with United's relatively new Polaris Suites I decided to shell out an additional $148 to try one. Unfortunately, in these covid times, service is essentially non-existent in First Class on a 900 mile 2 hour flight - maybe a snack box and a drink - but what the heck, you only live once. After all, it's not 1975 anymore when coach seating aboard DC-10s and L-1011s was a generous 2-4-2 with 34-36" pitch. These days - on United's 777-300 at least - you're looking at 3-4-3 seating with 32-34" pitch. When flying aircraft of international standard, it's so much nicer to enjoy them from the perspective of a proper suite than ensconced in a sea of seats - provided you can do so within the boundaries of your fiscal responsibilities. When I purchased this ticket last month, UA wanted over $200 to upgrade to "First".

It's 16 degrees and snowing lightly here in the Mile High City. The flight's running 40 minutes late with a 6:30pm MDT departure. My Broncos are playing the NFL champs Kansas City Chiefs and the difference in play is glaring. Alas, my Broncos look like little more than a pack of spindly legged vermin fit only for extermination. Hard to believe we were the champs just five years ago. Anyway, should you have nothing better to do, you can track me on flightradar24 as UA 248.

Tomorrow I'll be boarding the California Zephyr where I have a room reserved for the two day ride across the Rockies, canyons and deserts to Reno, Nevada. Life is good.

Except in fantasy football. My FlyerTalk league team is getting slaughtered this afternoon. Hard to believe that for wont of having gone with different wide receiver in last year's playoffs, I would have been league champion. Instead, I had to settle for the ignominy of 3rd place. Ah, the vicissitudes of Sunday afternoon wi-fi wars... This year it's looking like I'll be lucky if I make the playoffs at all.

6. Bristol Britannias flew cargo flights for several years around 1970 from the Canary Islands to Britain. What was the cargo ?

I recall reading once that sugar cane was a major export from the Canaries. Not to say the correct answer isn't bananas or oranges (both of which would certainly seem plausible) but if those fruits should by chance be incorrect, sugar cane just might be the answer we're looking for.

YVR Cockroach

I'll go with sardines.

WHBM

Quote:

sugar cane

Quote:

oranges

Quote:

bananas

Quote:

sardines

Quote:

tomatoes

Funny that everyone was guessing food.

But the answer is, believe it or not ... potatoes. By the late 1960s a Spanish independent carrier, Air Spain, had built up a small fleet of Bristol Britannias. Employed in the summer to do holiday flights from say Birmingham to Palma, business in the early jet era in winter for a Britannia was thin. Now the British potato crop, not as well kept through the winter then as now, would be somewhat deteriorated by around March, but an early arrival, shortly before the "new" crop arrived, would be "Jersey's" from the Channel Islands, further south than any of the mainland UK so they mature there first. Channel Islands to Britain is about 6 hours by ship, so that's how they came, but in the Canary Islands being much further south they mature even earlier.

Now potatoes are, believe it or not, a traditional key crop in the islands, if you go there on holiday you find all sorts of fancy spiced potato dishes at the hotel. The Spanish Conquistadores brought them back, not from Idaho but from South America, and The Canaries were their first port of call. However a ship from there to Britain takes about a week and they would go off in that time. But a Bristol Britannia took about 5 hours and was a good cargo aircraft, although the Air Spain ones did not have cargo doors. Never mind, they took out all the seats, installed cargo tie-downs, and sent one, possibly two, over to do daily runs in early spring from Las Palmas to Luton. Any business better than nothing.

In case that's felt to be an obscure question too far, if you refer back in this thread to Christmas Eve some 7 years ago, for those paying attention, I did mention this one before Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Further obscure bonus question too far : OK, in the winter of 1946 the very early independent cargo carriers of Britain, using surplus WW2 RAF Lancaster and Halifax bombers, got into a substantial urgent cargo shuttle from Belfast in Northern Ireland across to Liverpool and Manchester in England. Now what were they carrying ?

WHBM

Yes, it was Briitish United, though with a One-Eleven by this time, having changed over from the Viscount not long before. We have covered this surprisingly leisurely trip previously, which took four days to make the round trip from London, including a night stop each way at Las Palmas. This was better than it had been 10 years beforehand, when it didn't serve the Canaries but passed close by, along the coast of Africa, run by British United's forbears Hunting Clan and Airwork, with a Vickers Viking. That took three days each way, Monday to Wednesday outward, day off, Friday to Sunday return.

WHBM

Two to go :

... other Bonus Questions about the Canary Islands.

1. Which mainstream airline bought aircraft from a manufacturer they had never bought from before (or since), specifically to cover their extensive holiday flights to the Canary Islands. Airline and aircraft type.

...

3. Which airline was suddenly forced to serve the Canary Islands on major longhaul flights.

** If no takers I'll put the answers in tomorrow

jrl767

N606UA was Line Number 9, and made its first flight on 20 Jul 1982 ... as I recall, it was the first production jet to be built with the two-crew flight deck (the five flight test aircraft -- Boeing, 3x United, and 1x DL with the GE engine -- all had a flight engineer's station; Line Numbers 6 thru 8 -- 2x United, 1x American -- were retrofitted shortly after rollout)

I was Test Director on 606 for the First-of-Model certification flight on 11 Aug ... it was a long day; we held the preflight briefing at Everett/PAE around noon, spent about two hours doing system checks on the ground before engine start and another half hour before takeoff, shot half a dozen or so approaches and touch-and-go landings in various autopilot/autothrottle/flight director system configurations at Sacramento/SMF and about the same number at Moses Lake/MWH (I seem to recall we had at least two FAA pilots on board); shut down to refuel and conduct system checks on APU power; went around the pattern at heavy weight at MWH a few times and then another four or five times at Spokane/GEG; finally proceeded back to PAE, landing shortly after midnight

jrl767

1- taking the literal interpretation of “bought from manufacturer” I will offer that this was Condor with the 757-300 — they operated a number of other Boeing types (707, 727, 737, 747), but I believe most of them came from Lufthansa or lessors (or through other business/financial arrangements)

WHBM

Sorry, not that literal - this is where the airline in question only ever had this major aircraft manufacturer's products in their fleet just this once, used primarily to operate to the Canary Islands. It's also, unlike Condor, a major national flag carrier.

But you have started with getting a fraction of the answer right . By way of a hint, they recently disposed of them all. So they are back to none of their products at all.

WHBM

I'll just pick these up and round off.

The major airline that patronised a major manufacturer just once, specifically for their Canaries flights is ... Finnair. Long a McDonnell Douglas customer, they bought the Boeing 757 as their only ever Boeing aircraft, specifically for their high frequency Canaries flights. It always seemed that most of Finland went there each winter. They got about half a dozen of them in the 1990s, the last went a couple of years ago, replaced by more capable recent A321s. It's about 6.5 hours from Helsinki to the Canaries, they even did flights from many upcountry Finnish airports - I saw a Lappeenranta (where ?) to Las Palmas flight go once. Common pattern was an early morning flight from Helsinki, back late evening, leave again just before midnight, back lunchtime the next day, another departure mid afternoon, back into Helsinki in the early hours, and start again. Two aircraft covering three flights a day, and they covered multiple Canary islands. They also got used to Thailand, from Helsinki with a fuel stop at Dubai, and even to Toronto, which they could manage nonstop. They had high density holiday flight seating - I never saw them substitute one into London.

No other Boeing ever touched Finnair's fingers, and still not, now with an all-Airbus fleet. Back in the 1960s-70s the lead operator, in what was admittedly a smaller market then, was Spantax, with their Convair 990s. Nice little tribute to the last 757 here
Who was suddenly forced to serve Las Palmas in the Canaries was ... South African Airways, starting in the mid-1960s. They were banned from their traditional route up through Nairobi and across Africa, and almost overnight had to route "around the bulge", which was beyond the range of 707s, and later 747s, to do nonstop, especially northbound where Johannesburg airport is over 6,000 ft elevation. They split the intermediate stops, normally in the middle of the night, between Las palmas and Portuguese Sal Island, further south. They probably had contingency plans, but it came quite suddenly, right into the 1990s when direct overflights resumed.

jlemon

I recall seeing a Boeing 757 operated by Finnair landing at Santorini in the Greek islands many years ago. We had arrived by sailboat and it was the first time I had sailed with a certain Cajun lady who is now my wife. I believe the 757 was one of the larger aircraft (if not the largest) to serve Santorini at that time.

And on this beautifully cool, clear and crisp Saturday morning in south Louisiana with no hurricanes in view over the nearby Gulf of Mexico at the present time, let me wish everyone Happy Halloween! We will have a few old friends from Bristow, my former employer, over for dinner this evening including a very good friend who hails from London-town and look forward to greeting the trick or treaters as we enjoy a fire in the outdoor fireplace in our courtyard with a suitable glass of wine in hand.....

WHBM

If it was in the summer, quite likely for Santorini, it may well have been leased by a UK holiday flight company for the summer. The Finnish holiday market, like that from Canada, peaks with the snowbirds in the winter (in summer they go up to their cabins on the lake, sit in the sauna, and then run out and plunge into the icy lake ), and in summer one or more 757s might be leased out. Excel, Air Scandic, etc all took them over time. They also turned up short term as well.

Air Scandic (despite the name) was a UK operator, commonly with two aircraft, one at Gatwick and one at Manchester, who had some tie-up with Finnair. They took for years the two Finnair A300s, the ones which were replaced by the 757s, for the summer season. These had a unique custom flight deck layout which the UK CAA would not acknowledge, so they were always flown all year on the Finland register by Finnair pilots under contract, with UK cabin crew. When they finally rolled over to 757s themselves, the same applied.

Meanwhile, JL was dealing with Hurricane Zeta last weekend, now it's our turn, by the time they get here it's not a hurricane but just solid rain. It's wrecked the outside plans we had. October this year has been the wettest ever.

jlemon

This has obviously been a record-breaking year for tropical weather systems making landfall here in Louisiana.....and it's not over yet.

Our National Hurricane Center (NHC) is currently tracking an area of disturbed tropical weather moving west over the Caribbean Sea southeast of Jamaica which they say has a 90% chance of developing into something stronger. Depending on which computer model one looks at, this incipient system just might end up in the Gulf of Mexico at some point in the near future. Our hurricane season will be officially over at the end of November and we are very much looking forward to that day.