jlemon

I love these milk runs: Western's Lockheed Electra started in LAX, then stopped at LAS, SLC, PIH (Pocatello), (IDA) Idaho Falls, BTM (Butte), and HLM (Helena) on its way to GTF. I flew between YYC and DEN via GTF a couple of times that year, and WA had another 3-stopper on that route.

The restaurant is Antoine's -- oh, that wasn't part of the question, was it. As far as I can determine, the three carriers and their equipment were: AA - 727; WN - 737; and Delta, which had about four types of equipment in that service: 727, DC-9, L-1011, and even a DC-8.

6) Correct! And there's a great photo of a Western L-188 Electra taxiing to the runway at LAX in one of the links I provided above.....

11) You've a fine eye for fine dining establishments there, my friend! And two of three air carriers you mention are correct: In July of 1983, American operated Boeing 727-100 and -200 aircraft while Delta flew the L-1011 Tristar, Douglas DC-8 Super 60 series and Boeing 727-200 between MSY and DFW (no DL operated DC-9 service on this route at this time).

However, Southwest did not serve DFW and never has - only DAL.

So what was the third airline flying MSY-DFW back then and what type of aircraft did they operate?

jlemon

1) Well, Wally, I do not think it was the Boeing 720.....but I could be wrong!

It appears the aircraft in question may have been the Boeing 707-139 if photos from back then are correct. Initial routes appear to have been between LAX, SFO, PDX and SEA back around 1960. I also believe these early 707s were then replaced with Boeing 720B turbofan aircraft. Western also inherited several Boeing 720 turbojet aircraft from Pacific Northern which they continued to operate for a time. WA then acquired new B707-320C series aircraft.....

If anyone has any other information concerning the first jet aircraft type operated by Western, please chime in!

miniliq

That's what I get for not paying attention -- I certainly know that WN only went into Love field -- the third airline was Braniff, using a 727-200. And it was TI that used the DC-9s to DFW, but not non-stop.

I need to read the questions more carefully!

miniliq

In support of your view jlemon, my May 1960 OAG has a Western timetable, which features a full-page ad "Starts June 1 -- Western Airlines 707 Jets -- Los Angeles, San Francisco, Portland, Seattle/Tacoma"

AeroWesty

The apparent answer to this one somewhat surprised me. It appears that BFL service by UA was separate from their 737 milk-runs up and down the Central Valley.

So I'm going to go with very short-lived 727 service by Pacific Airlines. I'm going to take a stab at 1967 being the year.

WHBM

Yes, the two 707-139 which had been ordered by Cubana but stopped by the embargo were leased to Western in May 1960 after a month or two stuck at Seattle. They went back to Boeing in September 1962, then on to Pan Am. One was destroyed in an accident shortly afterwards, but the other was refitted with fan engines and operated out of Miami for some years. It actually had worked its way to British Caledonian at Gatwick in the summer 1979 season, and was finally retired in the late 1980s.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/148834/M/

The first proper fan-jet engine 720Bs for Western came just a year later, in April 1961. However Western later got another small fleet of older non-fan engined aircraft, which on that occasion they kept for years. Anyone give the background to these ?

jlemon

Braniff is an excellent guess! However, it was not BN....it was another airline.

jlemon

Correct! It was Pacific Air Lines with B727-100 service. I believe the year was 1966 and I think the routing may have been LAX-BFL-FAT-SJC-SFO. It didn't last very long. Pacific was also flying three roundtrips a day at this time SFO-MRY-SBA-LAX with a 727 and this route did not last very long either as the stop in SBA was eliminated.

United was operating into BFL at this time with Convair 340 prop equipment. But by 1969, UA was flying B737-200 aircraft up and down the Central Valley to small airports in Merced, Modesto and Visalia as well as to Bakersfield, Fresno and Stockton. Most of these flights originated or terminated at LAX and also served SFO as well. And some of these 737 milk runs continued north from SFO into Oregon....

jlemon

Ah, are you referring to the Boeing 720 turbojets that Western inherited from Pacific Northern following the acquisition of the latter by WA?

Western also inherited Lockheed Constellations when they acquired PNA which were primarily used for service by WA to such exotic destinations as Cordova, King Salmon, Kenai, Kodiak, Homer and Yakutat in Alaska from Anchorage and/or Seattle.....

cs57

5) Air Service 1973 Keene, NH --Miami, FL. (direct) This would be on Delta, using DC9 "Douglas Super Fan Jet" that had 12F and 80 Y seats. Delta noted this as a "D9N"
Flight originated in Manchester, NH at 12:45pm, proceeding to Keene, leaving there at 1:29pm, and getting to Miami at 6:35pm via LGA and PHL.

Return service from Miami was via JFK.

AeroWesty

Small point. As thread etiquette is now an open matter, may I suggest that if an answer is ambiguous or not directly held by the person posing the question, then it either not be asked at all, or at least some indication given that the definitive answer is generally unknown or may be up for debate.

Thanks.

Wally Bird

There were three; two new to PNA and one (N7081) which was kind of an oddball, delivered initially to Aer Lingus then bought by Braniff then PNA. For a short time it wore the BN "Jelly Bean" scheme (opinions differ as to whether it was orange or diaper-brown ) with PNA titles.

I forgot about the first two short-lived 707s but I'm guessing they are the only Boeings with a customer code of 39!

jlemon

Our man in Vermont is absolutely correct! The DC-9-30 jet service to Keene did not last very long.

jlemon

Looks like you're going to make me work for this! My apologies - I was quoting from memory.....which can sometimes be a bit dangerous when one is an airline old timer!

So I looked up the following in the Air Times site (which is where I first saw it as the following served as the basis for my question).....

The inside front cover of the July 1966 Pacific Air Lines system timetable has this marketing message:

"Pacific Air Lines now flies Boeing 727 jets to San Jose, Bakersfield, Fresno, Santa Barbara, Monterey, San Francisco and Los Angeles."

Other sources state that Pacific first began operating Boeing 727-100s in 1966.

There is also a route map accompanying the above marketing message that appears to indicate jet routes in bold red lines with LAX-BFL-FAT-SJC-SFO being shown as such.

Next time I won't be so lazy but shall be more specific!

Seat 2A

First-rate repartee stemming from jlemon's excellent collection of questions. I'm going to be heading farther north for a bit with limited internet access, so I'll be signing off for a while. In fact, I'm off to the airport right now.

Real quick as to the last 737-200 operations, any chance it was Alaska? Its last flights were in March of 2007. Some of those AS 737s went on to Aloha, but I think as freighters. If not, then of course I'd go with Aloha. No clue as to the route, (and possibly even the airline) so I'll look forward to checking out the answer down the road.