Things airlines do poorly
Jun 25, 2011 | 7:15 am
#17
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,251
Actually, pilots tell the company this kind of information all the time. The fact is, delaying one group of passengers by not holding a connection is sometimes a better choice than delaying another group of passengers by holding a connection.
Jun 25, 2011 | 7:46 am
#18
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,443
Many of the OP's points are valid. I can't, however, agree with the argument about not having the general safety announcements on every flight. The fact that the OP (and most people on these boards) fly frequently doesn't mean that this is true of everyone: patently it is not, and consequently the announcements need to be made on every flight.
I imagine that the idea of having seats upright at take-off and landing is as much to enable people in the row behind to get out easily if they need to (and to enable flight attendants or others to get in easily if someone is injured) as anything else.
As for the question of coffee on board, which someone raised: if you think the coffee's bad on most flights, have you tried the tea?
I imagine that the idea of having seats upright at take-off and landing is as much to enable people in the row behind to get out easily if they need to (and to enable flight attendants or others to get in easily if someone is injured) as anything else.
As for the question of coffee on board, which someone raised: if you think the coffee's bad on most flights, have you tried the tea?
Jun 25, 2011 | 8:33 am
#19
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 74
I'm starting a list of things that airlines do poorly, in no particular order.
Not the big stuff (these forums are full of seriously big stuff like bad customer service, baffling rules, etc.) but the simple things that can really add up if you travel a lot and point out that no one is sweating the details in this industry. Please pile on.
Fuzzy video and audio that hisses- airlines have been behind the curve on this stuff for years (think about those tubular cord headphones and bulky video monitors). The whole world has sharp HD video and clean sound- not on an airplane. I understand that some people spend a lot more time flying than others, but if you can't go a few hours without HD video, then you need help.
No cup holders- a no brainer. This would be nice as not all airlines, or maybe just not all airplanes, have cupholders in the tray. Last time I flew, I didn't have any cup holders on my tray, but this isn't a big deal to me.
Bogus safety precautions- do we really need to hear or see the safety message on every flight? Yes we do need to hear it and see it everytime. Not everybody is a frequent flier so not everybody hears them all the time.Does anyone think that replying with a verbal "yes" when sitting in an exit row will make a difference. Do upright seats when landing really prevent injuries in a crash? I know the FAA requires this non-sense but there's no research to back any of it up. As somebody else pointed out, the FAs are making sure you can communicate in English as well as determining your mental and physical ability to help out in an emergency, if needed.
Web site sessions that log you out after non-activity of just a few minutes- what could an intruder possibly steal? At least make it an option to stay logged on.
No radio contact between the pilot and company personnel on the ground- let the ground folks know that there are passengers on board with tight connections, etc. I know they have this ability but they don't use it. As another poster said, the pilots are very busy doing pre-flight stuff.
Underpowered greeting gate agents- holding a clipboard is not real customer service. How about calling a connecting gate for a late passenger that has a chance to make their flight? Especially if the delay is caused by the airline. This can be attributed to cost. Even if you're cutting a connection close because of something the airline did, it makes more sense for the airline to go ahead and get the next flight in the air without any additional delays whenever possible. Remember, there may be people on the next flight with tight connections so any delay could make them miss their connection. Not saying that those people are more important than you, but if there are 5 people on your flight that are cutting it close and 20 on the next flight, then it makes more sense economically to deal with the 5 people rather than the 20 people.
Non-standardized on-board payments- some flights don't take cash. Some only take cash. Don't make it hard to take more of our money. And stop pushing the duty-free crap that is no cheaper than buying it at home. I haven't been on a flight lately that still accepted cash so I was unaware that this was still a problem. Yes, they definitely need to fix this.
Gate agents that don't speak English well- especially when making PA announcements at the gate. This seems like a minimum job requirement. Certain places have a higher population of foreign people so this can be more location based than airline based. For instance, a city like Miami will probably have a higher % of people with hard to understand accents than a city like Indianapolis for example.
Receipts for flights often unavailable on line- hotels are guilty of this too. Call Amazon and ask them how they keep my purchase history and invoices available for years. I have heard that they are working on this and another poster confirmed it.
Hard to remember, random record locators/confirmation numbers- how about allowing me to find my reservations by name or password instead of the puzzles like HNZ06GX? If you're a FF of the airline, you can basically do this with your airline confirmations. I can't spak for the way it works with all airlines, but with Delta, you need your FF#, PIN#, and last name. Or you can check with the credit card # that you booked with. I can't imagine that other airlines wouldn't allow that. However, your confirmation #'s will always be those random codes that you'll find hard to remember.
Ugly uniforms- the polyester fashion disasters that the poor flight attendants (and flight crew) have to wear are awful. I'm worried about getting to my destination so I don't care what the FAs and pilots wear.
Ugly plane decors- I know that patterns hide wear and tear but do they have to be so hideous and dated? Once again, I'm worried about getting to my destination so don't care too much about the decor on or in the planes.
Repetitive corporate music- there's only so much Rhapsody in Blue (United) that you can endure. It's like an interrogation technique. Take your own headphones and a iPod or whatever and listen to your own tunes then.
Unorganized boarding procedures- there has to be reams of research on what the most efficient process is. Or maybe not.
Uncomfortable seats- again, there has to be lots of ergonomic information available that would allow something better than the ...-numbing seats in place now. Memory foam? Especially those thin fake leather seats on the regional jets. The current seats are designed for safety as well as fitting more people on the plane.
Hard to press video touch screens- you have to pound some of these seat back models and it's annoying to the passenger in front. The virtual keyboards on $49 smart phones seem to work just fine.
No foot rests- I'll bet the airlines pay $1000+ each for their seats. Why not include fold-out foot rests? I think the main thing here is safety during an emergency. If I'm sitting next to you and there is an emergency and I rush out of my seat and forget to fold mine back in, then you could trip over it and hurt yourself as well as slow down others in getting out if you don't notice that I left my footrest out. Plus, it would take away some of the your luggage stowing space. Remember, the overhead bins have to be shared, even though some people like to think that they don't have to share. The only place you are actually guaranteed to be able to place a carry-on is under the seat in front of you.
First class seats with seat obstructive seat pillars- it can't be that hard to shift these over so everyone has leg and foot room.
Hard to reach overhead vents- on some jumbo jets these vents over the middle seats can't be reached by passengers under 5' 10" or so.
No pens- everyone scrambles for a pen on international flights to fill out immigration forms. Not to mention crossword puzzles in their own in-flight magazines. I always have a pen on me as I never know when I may need one. If flying internationally, you know you need to fill out the paperwork so why would you not carry a pen of your own? Also, if you think you may want to do the crossword puzzles or happen to have your own puzzle book, then wouldn't you think that you should carry a pen anyway?
No power outlets- enough said.
No Wi-Fi- charge a few bucks and make a lot. Seems simple.
Same old TV shows- "The Office" is a funny show but I don't want to watch it every time I fly. This doesn't bother me as I take my iPad and watch my own movies or TV shows. Before I had an iPad, I had a fairly cheap portable dvd player so I could watch movies.
Crooked tray tables- laptops and drinks slide off with ease. There is not level one in the whole world. Obviously you haven't flown on every airline, on every airplane, and sat in every seat so this is a silly statement. However, probably 99% of the time, this isn't the airlines fault. It's the fault of the passengers who sometimes are rough with them and sometimes they just break because they've been used a lot.
Next list- things airports do poorly...
Not the big stuff (these forums are full of seriously big stuff like bad customer service, baffling rules, etc.) but the simple things that can really add up if you travel a lot and point out that no one is sweating the details in this industry. Please pile on.
Fuzzy video and audio that hisses- airlines have been behind the curve on this stuff for years (think about those tubular cord headphones and bulky video monitors). The whole world has sharp HD video and clean sound- not on an airplane. I understand that some people spend a lot more time flying than others, but if you can't go a few hours without HD video, then you need help.
No cup holders- a no brainer. This would be nice as not all airlines, or maybe just not all airplanes, have cupholders in the tray. Last time I flew, I didn't have any cup holders on my tray, but this isn't a big deal to me.
Bogus safety precautions- do we really need to hear or see the safety message on every flight? Yes we do need to hear it and see it everytime. Not everybody is a frequent flier so not everybody hears them all the time.Does anyone think that replying with a verbal "yes" when sitting in an exit row will make a difference. Do upright seats when landing really prevent injuries in a crash? I know the FAA requires this non-sense but there's no research to back any of it up. As somebody else pointed out, the FAs are making sure you can communicate in English as well as determining your mental and physical ability to help out in an emergency, if needed.
Web site sessions that log you out after non-activity of just a few minutes- what could an intruder possibly steal? At least make it an option to stay logged on.
No radio contact between the pilot and company personnel on the ground- let the ground folks know that there are passengers on board with tight connections, etc. I know they have this ability but they don't use it. As another poster said, the pilots are very busy doing pre-flight stuff.
Underpowered greeting gate agents- holding a clipboard is not real customer service. How about calling a connecting gate for a late passenger that has a chance to make their flight? Especially if the delay is caused by the airline. This can be attributed to cost. Even if you're cutting a connection close because of something the airline did, it makes more sense for the airline to go ahead and get the next flight in the air without any additional delays whenever possible. Remember, there may be people on the next flight with tight connections so any delay could make them miss their connection. Not saying that those people are more important than you, but if there are 5 people on your flight that are cutting it close and 20 on the next flight, then it makes more sense economically to deal with the 5 people rather than the 20 people.
Non-standardized on-board payments- some flights don't take cash. Some only take cash. Don't make it hard to take more of our money. And stop pushing the duty-free crap that is no cheaper than buying it at home. I haven't been on a flight lately that still accepted cash so I was unaware that this was still a problem. Yes, they definitely need to fix this.
Gate agents that don't speak English well- especially when making PA announcements at the gate. This seems like a minimum job requirement. Certain places have a higher population of foreign people so this can be more location based than airline based. For instance, a city like Miami will probably have a higher % of people with hard to understand accents than a city like Indianapolis for example.
Receipts for flights often unavailable on line- hotels are guilty of this too. Call Amazon and ask them how they keep my purchase history and invoices available for years. I have heard that they are working on this and another poster confirmed it.
Hard to remember, random record locators/confirmation numbers- how about allowing me to find my reservations by name or password instead of the puzzles like HNZ06GX? If you're a FF of the airline, you can basically do this with your airline confirmations. I can't spak for the way it works with all airlines, but with Delta, you need your FF#, PIN#, and last name. Or you can check with the credit card # that you booked with. I can't imagine that other airlines wouldn't allow that. However, your confirmation #'s will always be those random codes that you'll find hard to remember.
Ugly uniforms- the polyester fashion disasters that the poor flight attendants (and flight crew) have to wear are awful. I'm worried about getting to my destination so I don't care what the FAs and pilots wear.
Ugly plane decors- I know that patterns hide wear and tear but do they have to be so hideous and dated? Once again, I'm worried about getting to my destination so don't care too much about the decor on or in the planes.
Repetitive corporate music- there's only so much Rhapsody in Blue (United) that you can endure. It's like an interrogation technique. Take your own headphones and a iPod or whatever and listen to your own tunes then.
Unorganized boarding procedures- there has to be reams of research on what the most efficient process is. Or maybe not.
Uncomfortable seats- again, there has to be lots of ergonomic information available that would allow something better than the ...-numbing seats in place now. Memory foam? Especially those thin fake leather seats on the regional jets. The current seats are designed for safety as well as fitting more people on the plane.
Hard to press video touch screens- you have to pound some of these seat back models and it's annoying to the passenger in front. The virtual keyboards on $49 smart phones seem to work just fine.
No foot rests- I'll bet the airlines pay $1000+ each for their seats. Why not include fold-out foot rests? I think the main thing here is safety during an emergency. If I'm sitting next to you and there is an emergency and I rush out of my seat and forget to fold mine back in, then you could trip over it and hurt yourself as well as slow down others in getting out if you don't notice that I left my footrest out. Plus, it would take away some of the your luggage stowing space. Remember, the overhead bins have to be shared, even though some people like to think that they don't have to share. The only place you are actually guaranteed to be able to place a carry-on is under the seat in front of you.
First class seats with seat obstructive seat pillars- it can't be that hard to shift these over so everyone has leg and foot room.
Hard to reach overhead vents- on some jumbo jets these vents over the middle seats can't be reached by passengers under 5' 10" or so.
No pens- everyone scrambles for a pen on international flights to fill out immigration forms. Not to mention crossword puzzles in their own in-flight magazines. I always have a pen on me as I never know when I may need one. If flying internationally, you know you need to fill out the paperwork so why would you not carry a pen of your own? Also, if you think you may want to do the crossword puzzles or happen to have your own puzzle book, then wouldn't you think that you should carry a pen anyway?
No power outlets- enough said.
No Wi-Fi- charge a few bucks and make a lot. Seems simple.
Same old TV shows- "The Office" is a funny show but I don't want to watch it every time I fly. This doesn't bother me as I take my iPad and watch my own movies or TV shows. Before I had an iPad, I had a fairly cheap portable dvd player so I could watch movies.
Crooked tray tables- laptops and drinks slide off with ease. There is not level one in the whole world. Obviously you haven't flown on every airline, on every airplane, and sat in every seat so this is a silly statement. However, probably 99% of the time, this isn't the airlines fault. It's the fault of the passengers who sometimes are rough with them and sometimes they just break because they've been used a lot.
Next list- things airports do poorly...
Jun 25, 2011 | 11:13 am
#20
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Columbus, OH
Programs: UA 1k
Posts: 192
Wow, you guys need to lighten up.
Comments like these aren't really needed:
"If you can't go few hours with HD video you need help" (How about 16 hours to BKK, or back and forth to IAD and LHR every 2 weeks?)
"Most of what is mentioned is small and unimportant"-, (um, yes, that was clearly pointed out in my OP...)
"This statement, alone, indicates to me that I need not read the rest of your message" (and then she goes on to read the whole post and reply...)
And all of the defensive rationales for things that could maybe be fixed if someone took the time to bother completely miss the point and spirit of my post. The idea is "Wouldn't it be nice if airlines paid more attention to little stuff in an effort to please their valuable customers."
Regarding the safety stuff:
The pilot gets and communicates gate info and he doesn't crash the plane, so asking for connection communication isn't wholly unreasonable.
Seats that are 1" back are not a safety hazard, let the poor guy sleep.
The safety speech could be on card, not verbally blasted from a speaker 1 ft. from your ear.
...etc., etc.
Comments like these aren't really needed:
"If you can't go few hours with HD video you need help" (How about 16 hours to BKK, or back and forth to IAD and LHR every 2 weeks?)
"Most of what is mentioned is small and unimportant"-, (um, yes, that was clearly pointed out in my OP...)
"This statement, alone, indicates to me that I need not read the rest of your message" (and then she goes on to read the whole post and reply...)
And all of the defensive rationales for things that could maybe be fixed if someone took the time to bother completely miss the point and spirit of my post. The idea is "Wouldn't it be nice if airlines paid more attention to little stuff in an effort to please their valuable customers."
Regarding the safety stuff:
The pilot gets and communicates gate info and he doesn't crash the plane, so asking for connection communication isn't wholly unreasonable.
Seats that are 1" back are not a safety hazard, let the poor guy sleep.
The safety speech could be on card, not verbally blasted from a speaker 1 ft. from your ear.
...etc., etc.
Jun 25, 2011 | 2:55 pm
#21
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 53,010
I find it amazing that no airline in the world has a robust, fully-functional, stable website through which it can sell or modify all of the same types of tickets it can sell or modify via phone.
If such a beast exists, I'm not aware of it. Maybe ANA comes close? (For one of their own frequent fliers, of course.)
Even more amazing is how many airlines have sites that barely work. (Southwest being a prominent one now.)
It's 2011, not 1996.
If such a beast exists, I'm not aware of it. Maybe ANA comes close? (For one of their own frequent fliers, of course.)
Even more amazing is how many airlines have sites that barely work. (Southwest being a prominent one now.)
It's 2011, not 1996.
Jun 25, 2011 | 2:59 pm
#22
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Programs: Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Platinum, Aeroplan Diamond, HHonors Gold, SPG Gold
Posts: 18,686
I find it amazing that no airline in the world has a robust, fully-functional, stable website through which it can sell or modify all of the same types of tickets it can sell or modify via phone.
If such a beast exists, I'm not aware of it. Maybe ANA comes close? (For one of their own frequent fliers, of course.)
Even more amazing is how many airlines have sites that barely work. (Southwest being a prominent one now.)
It's 2011, not 1996.
If such a beast exists, I'm not aware of it. Maybe ANA comes close? (For one of their own frequent fliers, of course.)
Even more amazing is how many airlines have sites that barely work. (Southwest being a prominent one now.)
It's 2011, not 1996.
This multi-billion dollar industry hurts when airlines can't even have a properly working basic website that's available..
Jun 25, 2011 | 3:45 pm
#23
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: PHX
Posts: 3,794
One other note with the safety spiel is the flight attendants have to be there anyway, so there's no real cost in having them do the spiel during taxi. So why not?
The evacuation certification tests were done with the seatbacks upright, so that's how they're set for takeoff and landing. Again, there's zero cost to having your seat upright for the first and last 10 minutes of the flight, so why not?
The evacuation certification tests were done with the seatbacks upright, so that's how they're set for takeoff and landing. Again, there's zero cost to having your seat upright for the first and last 10 minutes of the flight, so why not?
Jun 25, 2011 | 4:00 pm
#24
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 53,010
A few other notes to airlines...related to phone support...
(1) If I'm calling you today from my own cell phone, and I'm boarding one of your flights today, you can assume I that I want to talk about that flight. Don't ask me for flight numbers, PNR's, frequent flier numbers, or other data. The very fact that I'm on the phone at all means I'm probably in an airport, or on my way to an airport, and I'm for some reason concerned about my immediate travels.
(Credit to United: they mostly understand this, with minor imperfections...and it's easy to drop into more general options if you really don't want to talk about today's flight.)
(2) If you transfer me from one phone agent to another, transfer my information as well. I don't mind having to re-explain my situation a little bit but don't ask me for basic information a 2nd time.
(3) Install callback systems when there's a hold time of longer than 5 minutes. Even Hertz has this, and the rental car industry is generally known for horrific customer service. Usually when I'm calling an airline, so is everybody else because we're all impacted by the same irrops. Callbacks would make things much easier on everyone.
(1) If I'm calling you today from my own cell phone, and I'm boarding one of your flights today, you can assume I that I want to talk about that flight. Don't ask me for flight numbers, PNR's, frequent flier numbers, or other data. The very fact that I'm on the phone at all means I'm probably in an airport, or on my way to an airport, and I'm for some reason concerned about my immediate travels.
(Credit to United: they mostly understand this, with minor imperfections...and it's easy to drop into more general options if you really don't want to talk about today's flight.)
(2) If you transfer me from one phone agent to another, transfer my information as well. I don't mind having to re-explain my situation a little bit but don't ask me for basic information a 2nd time.
(3) Install callback systems when there's a hold time of longer than 5 minutes. Even Hertz has this, and the rental car industry is generally known for horrific customer service. Usually when I'm calling an airline, so is everybody else because we're all impacted by the same irrops. Callbacks would make things much easier on everyone.
Jun 25, 2011 | 4:32 pm
#25
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: US-CP, UA, Marriott Rewards, HHonors, Avis,
Posts: 4,549
Jun 25, 2011 | 11:05 pm
#26
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Programs: Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Platinum, Aeroplan Diamond, HHonors Gold, SPG Gold
Posts: 18,686
A few other things airlines seem not to do well..
1) Lack of FF reservations access by phone 24 hours/7 days a week..
2) Wait times on hold..
3) Inconsistent answers.. and non-universal methods of searching flight availability over the phone..
1) Lack of FF reservations access by phone 24 hours/7 days a week..
2) Wait times on hold..
3) Inconsistent answers.. and non-universal methods of searching flight availability over the phone..
Jun 25, 2011 | 11:18 pm
#27
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,724
I highly doubts pilots relay this info. All major carriers have connection coordinators at their hubs to run these numbers.
Jun 26, 2011 | 12:45 am
#28
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,251
Not uncommon at all.
You are right in assuming somebody at the company already knows. The pilots don't know or care about that. From their perspective, taking 30 seconds to pass that information to the SOC can't hurt, and then the flight attendant can tell the passenger that the company was "notified".
Last edited by telloh; Jun 26, 2011 at 12:51 am
Jun 26, 2011 | 5:26 am
#29
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 822
The pay thing reminds me of a recent experience on Aeroflot. I wanted a beer and flashed them my VISA card (alcohol on Aeroflot is generally buy on board), but they declined that. They went on with the trolley while I sat digging my roubles. Of course I want to pay for things. The FA then came back after the service to collect garbage etc and I lended her the payment which was 82 roubles. She was confused and asked if I wanted another one. I explained that I did not pay for this and I just wanted to pay. Could have a free beer I realized, but I am a honest passenger. I think every airline should take VISA and Mastercard. In the Untied States it is creditcard ONLY most of the time.
Jun 26, 2011 | 6:00 am
#30
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 181
You may be pleased to know that a few of your complaints are already addressed by some airlines:
Just flew a CX Boeing 777 and it had cup holders. Other airlines should follow.
There is a good reason for this actually -- the same passenger may well have two or more itineraries pending at the same time. Also, multiple passengers may all be booked under the same record locator. From what I can tell (not being in the airline industry), the record locator is a "primary key" for the airline's reservation database. In any case, many airlines don't require you to know the record locator as you can look up your itinerary by entering other information such as your email address and date of travel. When checking in, usually an ID is sufficient to look up your reservation.
Try flying an Asian airline sometime.
Philippine Airlines has foot rests on its Airbus A320s. Don't know about U.S.-based carriers with A320s or why they wouldn't.
Again, CX's 777 has these. It's a nice feature and I'm sure this will become standard on new aircraft.
Just flew a CX Boeing 777 and it had cup holders. Other airlines should follow.
Hard to remember, random record locators/confirmation numbers- how about allowing me to find my reservations by name or password instead of the puzzles like HNZ06GX?
Ugly uniforms- the polyester fashion disasters that the poor flight attendants (and flight crew) have to wear are awful.
No foot rests- I'll bet the airlines pay $1000+ each for their seats. Why not include fold-out foot rests?
No power outlets- enough said.