FlyerTalk Forums - KVS Availability Tool

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)

- Travel Tools (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-tools-701/)

- - KVS Availability Tool (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-tools/319244-kvs-availability-tool.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by josephstern (Post 23713816)

Unless they know how many searches you ran before the change happened. If you never used 'availability' then they may not be inclined to help.

That's a good point. I would think that most people use the tool for availability, but I've been very wrong before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KVS (Post 23713571)

The KVS Tool contains as many as 50+ different Methods, features and functions, so the discontinuation of 1 or 2 Methods in question, while unfortunate, is hardly "massive".

Nevertheless, we fully appreciate that many of our Members have found those Methods valuable and will continue to work toward finding a suitable replacement.

These types of requests would be evaluated and handled on a case-by-case basis.

Let me rephrase that f:)r everyone...

[KVS Translation tool 9.9.2 / Plutonium]

Code:

The KVS Tool contains as many as 50+ different ways of scraping data from

unsuspecting web sites and data providers.  The discovery of this by the 

owners/providers of 1 or 2 leaves quite a few sources of data I can make

money from.



Rest assured that other unsecured data sources are out there and I am

working to find and monetize them faster than the current ones can be shut down.



As far as pro-rated refunds are concerned, if you PROMISE not to post

publicly about this I'll offer to extend your subscription for a bit

rather than fork over any money.  You did, after all, make a 'contribution'

and not a purchase.  <wink><wink>

Can you disenchanted people just move on. If you don't want to continue the service as is and are firm in your beliefs, just don't use it. It wasn't that expensive to start off with. If there's some huge monetary issue involved, then ask them for a prorated refund and cancel your account. Simply do what you think is right. Please let us know when you've cancelled your entire KVS account so we all don't have to listen to further rants.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JIMCHI (Post 23713879)

I gotta say, you've been around FT longer than most of us. You know this isn't how things work here.

Does anyone else have issues searching same day availability same day using GTC? Mine always comes back with an error.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMH (Post 23710737)

I was also disappointed when I first took a little time to look at what was going on inside the KVS black box. That was back in 2011, when I was still a subscriber.

KVS got sufficiently rattled by criticism/questions from people who'd understood what was going on for some time (some of whom have contributed to this thread) to make a rather unwise move (from his point of view): he started a discussion on milepoint. The key points were summarised in this post.) The thread was quite enlightening until Randy Petersen stamped on it.

I wasn't planning to post any more to this thread, but wanted to thank you for posting that link. Just confirms that many other people also feel almost exactly the same way I do about this individual. Not only that, but that thread is almost four years old, and seems this has been going on for a long time, possibly back to day one, and the owner has not modified his behavior one single bit. Being I'm not really familiar with KVS, I thought maybe it was just something more recent. Well, I already made my decision (to never even think about paying monthly to rent this "web browser", as he calls it, tool), and this just makes me absolutely certain that I made the right decision.

A couple of interesting threads I read on that website, and thoroughly recommend anyone thinking about KVS to give it a read if you have any concerns about what you're reading here. It becomes perfectly clear what the man is all about once you read all that, but of course everyone needs to make up their own minds, and maybe some will have no problem doing business with KVS.

While I'm here, guess I'll just go ahead and respond to a couple items...

Quote:

Originally Posted by KVS (Post 23713571)

The KVS Tool contains as many as 50+ different Methods, features and functions, so the discontinuation of 1 or 2 Methods in question, while unfortunate, is hardly "massive".

If I recall seeing a few posts just prior to this whole ordeal, there were three methods for searching general (not award) availability. The first method disappeared, and you recommended that users change to the method which used the flightstats.com website. Very soon after that, flightstats.com withdrew their availability option, which suspiciously sounds like they were quite sick of your shenanigans and didn't feel like paying for all the increased traffic you directed to their website, without asking for permission. Well, thanks a lot, KVS, that was what I was using (the way it was intended via a normal browser) for searching my availability. Now you have a third method (via telling users to create unauthorized accounts at FAU), and sounds like they've at least plugged that whole for new users, and wouldn't be surprised if all these new accounts get deleted soon. So that's three methods in just the past couple weeks as I count it, at least for those who don't know of any other dishonest way of using someone else's account, and aren't paying extra just to get their legal GTC feed.

Now isn't that ALL the methods you have for searching general availability? And all three of them have disappeared (if you're considering people who haven't yet signed up for an unauthorized account with FAU). Then take a look at the title of this thread. It's titled, "KVS Availability Tool"! Suddenly all general availability has disappeared, and you call that "hardly "massive""? Shaking my head in disbelief, though guess I shouldn't knowing who's speaking. Just more of the usual in your attempt to deflect what is the real issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JIMCHI (Post 23705771)

I wish everyone would stop complaining about how KVS gets it's data. It's none of my concern. It's between KVS and the data provider. If you have serious qualms about it, you always have the option of discontinuing use of KVS.

Guess you haven't been following along very well, and just assumed wrongly, like so many, that KVS is supplying this data. They're not, at least according to KVS. According to KVS the tool is just a glorified web browser (screen scraper though is a much more accurate description). So it is very much important to you where and under what circumstances this data is being obtained. And if being obtained illegally, you could potentially be legally liable. THAT is YOUR concern, and whether KVS can be located and whether they can also be held accountable, isn't so sure, being it seems KVS tries his best to remain out of the public eye and identified.

But regardless of the legal/moral issue of accessing data you're not authorized to, probably a much bigger reason to be concerned for most now using it is the search methods disappearing, and perhaps won't come back. Forking out money for a tool, only to realize you bought something worthless because no more data is available is most definitely the concern of the customer (or I guess as KVS views it, not a customer at all, but merely a contributor, donating funds to him).

Oh, yeah, forgot to mention one more thing. KVS needs to test all their methods. So even if they're leaving it up to the user to decide whether or not to use some method, they themselves must have, at least while developing that part of the tool, to test that it works. So KVS is every bit as legally liable for any breeches as is the user. Don't recall seeing anyone mention that point till now. Not that it really makes a whole lot of difference if KVS is located in a foreign country (as has been posted), and not readily accessible, being any interested parties may very well just give up before spending a lot of effort/money in trying to track him down. Probably much easier for them to just plug the holes, which seems to be what's been happening all along.

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymo99 (Post 23709563)

KVS, your answers to a selective subset of posts are disingenuous. You are nearly the only one on this thread pretending that the events of the past week are anything short of a massive devaluation of your tool. This charade is a slap in the face to longtime subscribers, especially those (such as myself) who have been champions of your service in the past.

This whole thing would sit much better with a little bit of humility and candor on your part. Instead, we are faced with smugness and hubris.

Will you be honoring requests for prorated subscription refunds? (And will you be selecting this question as to one that merits a reply from you?!)

Please answer my query here. I don't appreciate private messages asking me to redact my postings to FT.

The more I read, the more this "business man's" attitude is making me sick. One of his m.o.'s is obviously to try to silence his critics, asking them to redact postings, offering them rewards for not saying negative things or for those to post positive things about KVS (rewards such as extending or upgrading accounts). Why the need for this undercover attempt to censor what's being said? If something shouldn't have been posted to this forum, then the owner should be contacting the moderators and asking them to delete it, not sending PM's to users with offers of rewards or threats of punishment for following along or not following along with his agenda. Really totally disgusting in my mind that this sort of thing is going on here on our forum.

My Diamond "contribution" will expire in a few weeks and even though I'm (was?) a big fan and love the convenience and time-saving it provides, I don't think I'll be able to continue "supporting" this tool.

Thankfully, there are alternatives.

<redacted>

The tone of recent discussion in this thread, and especially posts with personal attacks, like this one, remind me why I stopped hanging out at FT. I think it's time for me to head back to friendlier pastures (with higher signal-noise ratio) again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jozdemir (Post 23714058)

Does anyone else have issues searching same day availability same day using GTC? Mine always comes back with an error.

It looks like GTC requires you to specify a time of day rather than just leaving it as "default".

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomh009 (Post 23714595)

It looks like GTC requires you to specify a time of day rather than just leaving it as "default".

Tried that, I get this:

"Date Out-Of-Range / Time (+8 Hours) must be specified"

Doesn't really help me if I want to look at a flight departing in a few hours.

Oh well...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jozdemir (Post 23714673)

Doesn't really help me if I want to look at a flight departing in a few hours.

Oh well...

Indeed ... not so good. Another strike against GTC.

I'm waiting to see how things shake out, and whether other options might appear, before I downgrade to the ExpertFlyer web UI. Lots of complaints about KVS here, but the people running EF (who are they?) aren't particularly open, either.

Ladies and Gentlemen, Dear Kids,
most of the participants in this thread are veterans of FT and most certainly know not to comment on a particular member but stick to the topic on hand. Do not get personal and only make comments on the topic of the thread, namely the 'KVS Availability Tool'. The same applies to the use of the private messaging system provided to members.

Any violation of the FT rules will be dealt with as usual.

Regards Oliver2002
Senior Mod

Bye Bye KVS ....

Reply to my request for accessing flight availability :
Hi and thanks for submitting a request for additional information regarding the [Availability/GTC] Method.

Unfortunately, due to abusive behavior and actions of certain Members, we are no longer able to provide such information.

We will continue to work toward finding a suitable replacement Method.

In the meantime, Diamond-tier Members can continue to access Regular Availability via the KVS Tool Mobile Companion.

This also has no impact on any of the other functions of the KVS Tool (including Award/Upgrade Availability).

Please advise if this helps,

I bought something and now they tell me to use my phone to get flight availability !
Is is a joke ??????????????????