Feb 14, 2015, 12:53 pm
Last edit by: 747FC
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ExpertFlyer.com Help Desk Thread
Sep 22, 2016, 8:30 am
#1216
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
I'm not so sure the issue is PEK-LAX fares not being able to be combined with other fares on an end-on-end basis - that seems to be about combining multiple fares on the same itinerary, whereas I'm looking at the combinations of fare classes across carriers as part of the same fare. Even I find that explanation confusing, so let me elaborate. I was in fact looking at a YYZ-PEK fare filed by OZ, which permitted travel on AC from LAX/SFO/CHI/NYC/SEA to YYZ in the routing rules. What I've deduced is that on this fare basis (HHWNC to be exact) only certain combinations of OZ and AC fare classes are allowed by ITA Matrix. For example, Matrix books OZ H together with AC W, but if OZ Q space opened up in one of my searches, it would book OZ Q with AC S (note that it would not book OZ H with AC S even though S is lower than W and was available).
For HHWNC, it looks like the following lines may be relevant:-
Code:
Booking Class Search:
Departing YYZ on 22/09/16 for PEK
Fare basis code HHWNC
Flying OZ
Routing via Pacific
Booking Class
>$LB6
006 YTOBJS 22SEP16 OZ GBP 1129.00 HHWNC STAY---/12MBK-H
FARE CLS EXPLANATION BOOK CODES
-------- ---------------------- ----------
HHWNC HIGH SEASON WEEKEND REGULAR EXCURSION H
HHWNC FARES
HHWNC BETWEEN CANADA AND AREA 3 FOR ROUND TRIP FARES
...
Alternate Airline (AIR CANADA (AC))
>$LB6/AC
006 YTOBJS 22SEP16 OZ GBP 1129.00 HHWNC STAY---/12MBK-H
FARE CLS EXPLANATION BOOK CODES
-------- ---------------------- ----------
HHWNC HIGH SEASON WEEKEND REGULAR EXCURSION H
HHWNC FARES
HHWNC BETWEEN CANADA AND AREA 3 FOR ROUND TRIP FARES
BOOKING CODE EXCEPTIONS FOR CARRIER: AC
VIA AC NO BOOKING CODE DATA EXISTS FLTS
2260-2539
VIA AC NO BOOKING CODE DATA EXISTS FLTS
5000-5999
VIA AC NO BOOKING CODE DATA EXISTS FLTS
6184-6223
VIA AC NO BOOKING CODE DATA EXISTS FLTS
6326-6385
VIA AC NO BOOKING CODE DATA EXISTS FLTS
6669-6670
VIA AC NO BOOKING CODE DATA EXISTS FLTS
6770-6839
VIA AC NO BOOKING CODE DATA EXISTS FLTS
9000-9655 01AUG16-01AUG25
IF VIA UA H- FARES VIA ATLANTIC
VIA AC H REQUIRED WITHIN AREA 1
IF VIA UA ALL ECONOMY CABIN VIA ATLANTIC
VIA AC K REQUIRED WITHIN AREA 1
IF VIA OZ H- FARES
VIA AC W REQUIRED
IF VIA OZ ALL EXCURSION
VIA AC L REQUIRED
IF VIA ** ALL CARRIERS EXCEPT AC
VIA AC L REQUIRED
Code:
Booking Class Search:
Departing YYZ on 22/09/16 for PEK
Fare basis code QHWNC
Flying OZ
Routing via Pacific
Booking Class
>$LB6
006 YTOBJS 22SEP16 OZ GBP 896.00 QHWNC STAY---/12MBK-Q
FARE CLS EXPLANATION BOOK CODES
-------- ---------------------- ----------
QHWNC HIGH SEASON WEEKEND REGULAR EXCURSION Q
QHWNC FARES
QHWNC BETWEEN CANADA AND AREA 3 FOR ROUND TRIP FARES
...
Alternate Airline (AIR CANADA (AC))
>$LB6/AC
006 YTOBJS 22SEP16 OZ GBP 896.00 QHWNC STAY---/12MBK-Q
FARE CLS EXPLANATION BOOK CODES
-------- ---------------------- ----------
QHWNC HIGH SEASON WEEKEND REGULAR EXCURSION Q
QHWNC FARES
QHWNC BETWEEN CANADA AND AREA 3 FOR ROUND TRIP FARES
BOOKING CODE EXCEPTIONS FOR CARRIER: AC
VIA AC NO BOOKING CODE DATA EXISTS FLTS
2260-2539
VIA AC NO BOOKING CODE DATA EXISTS FLTS
5000-5999
VIA AC NO BOOKING CODE DATA EXISTS FLTS
6184-6223
VIA AC NO BOOKING CODE DATA EXISTS FLTS
6326-6385
VIA AC NO BOOKING CODE DATA EXISTS FLTS
6669-6670
VIA AC NO BOOKING CODE DATA EXISTS FLTS
6770-6839
VIA AC NO BOOKING CODE DATA EXISTS FLTS
9000-9655 01AUG16-01AUG25
IF VIA UA Q- FARES VIA ATLANTIC
VIA AC Q REQUIRED WITHIN AREA 1
IF VIA UA ALL ECONOMY CABIN VIA ATLANTIC
VIA AC K REQUIRED WITHIN AREA 1
IF VIA OZ Q- FARES
VIA AC S REQUIRED
IF VIA OZ ALL EXCURSION
VIA AC L REQUIRED
IF VIA ** ALL CARRIERS EXCEPT AC
VIA AC L REQUIRED
You cannot get an H/S pairing because the fare that's valid for OZ H class is only valid on AC W class, and the (different) fare that's valid for OZ Q class is only valid on AC S class. (Or, in either case, if AC W class or S class respectively are not available, then the fare must book in to AC L class.)
Sep 22, 2016, 8:47 am
#1217
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: YYZ, YUL, PEK
Posts: 429
Wow, thank you Globaliser! That's exactly the information I wanted. I'll have to spend some time studying those secondary airline fare rules but I'm sure it'll be very instructive.
So this means that W/H combination is valid then. If the fare is valid, the W/H combination is valid, and live availability exists in the respective classes (even when looking up all segments at the same time to prevent married segment issues), is there anything else fare-rules related (or at all) that could be preventing even a travel agent from booking it in Sabre?
So this means that W/H combination is valid then. If the fare is valid, the W/H combination is valid, and live availability exists in the respective classes (even when looking up all segments at the same time to prevent married segment issues), is there anything else fare-rules related (or at all) that could be preventing even a travel agent from booking it in Sabre?
Last edited by flyer05; Sep 22, 2016 at 9:02 am Reason: Attached an image of the situation
Sep 22, 2016, 9:10 am
#1218
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
So this means that W/H combination is valid then. If the fare is valid, the W/H combination is valid, and live availability exists in the respective classes (even when looking up all segments at the same time to prevent married segment issues), is there anything else fare-rules related (or at all) that could be preventing even a travel agent from booking it in Sabre?
Sep 22, 2016, 12:42 pm
#1219
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 375
Okay, I realize I have a ways to go with understanding the intricacies of ITA and EF, but I've looked at the two screen snips you attached to your post and still cannot see the apparently obvious clues in them that show "only valid on AC W class, and the (different) fare that's valid for OZ Q class is only valid on AC S class." What am I not seeing?
Sep 22, 2016, 2:58 pm
#1220
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
Okay, I realize I have a ways to go with understanding the intricacies of ITA and EF, but I've looked at the two screen snips you attached to your post and still cannot see the apparently obvious clues in them that show "only valid on AC W class, and the (different) fare that's valid for OZ Q class is only valid on AC S class." What am I not seeing?
Technically, if W class or S class respectively are not available, you move down to the next line which provides that L class is required. However, I can now see that that's likely to be academic as L is a lower booking class than either W or S, so if they are sold out then L is likely to be unavailable too. However, in theory if W is unavailable but L is available, then the fare will book into L. But if there is nothing in L either, then the fare is not bookable into any available class and you will go empty-handed.
Code:
Booking Class Search:
Departing YYZ on 22/09/16 for PEK
Fare basis code HHWNC
Flying OZ
Routing via Pacific
...
Alternate Airline (AIR CANADA (AC))
>$LB6/AC
006 YTOBJS 22SEP16 OZ GBP 1129.00 HHWNC STAY---/12MBK-H
FARE CLS EXPLANATION BOOK CODES
-------- ---------------------- ----------
HHWNC HIGH SEASON WEEKEND REGULAR EXCURSION H
HHWNC FARES
HHWNC BETWEEN CANADA AND AREA 3 FOR ROUND TRIP FARES
BOOKING CODE EXCEPTIONS FOR CARRIER: AC
...
IF VIA OZ H- FARES
VIA AC W REQUIRED
IF VIA OZ ALL EXCURSION
VIA AC L REQUIRED
IF VIA ** ALL CARRIERS EXCEPT AC
VIA AC L REQUIRED
Code:
Booking Class Search:
Departing YYZ on 22/09/16 for PEK
Fare basis code QHWNC
Flying OZ
Routing via Pacific
...
Alternate Airline (AIR CANADA (AC))
>$LB6/AC
006 YTOBJS 22SEP16 OZ GBP 896.00 QHWNC STAY---/12MBK-Q
FARE CLS EXPLANATION BOOK CODES
-------- ---------------------- ----------
QHWNC HIGH SEASON WEEKEND REGULAR EXCURSION Q
QHWNC FARES
QHWNC BETWEEN CANADA AND AREA 3 FOR ROUND TRIP FARES
BOOKING CODE EXCEPTIONS FOR CARRIER: AC
...
IF VIA OZ Q- FARES
VIA AC S REQUIRED
IF VIA OZ ALL EXCURSION
VIA AC L REQUIRED
IF VIA ** ALL CARRIERS EXCEPT AC
VIA AC L REQUIRED
Sep 22, 2016, 9:56 pm
#1222
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 375
D'oh.
Sep 23, 2016, 1:48 am
#1223
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
Sorry, I should have made that clearer to begin with!
But the query and the ability to find the answer on EF does remind me just how powerful a resource it is, particularly when coupled with the equally powerful ITA.
But the query and the ability to find the answer on EF does remind me just how powerful a resource it is, particularly when coupled with the equally powerful ITA.
Sep 24, 2016, 8:34 am
#1224
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 15
Hi!
I am an EF subscriber! Sorry if this should be posted somewhere else.
AA flight on EF changed overnight from J7 to J0 (AA) a week out.
Seatmap shows only 35% taken... what gives ? Did all seats got sold overnight ?
I am asking because I am waitlisted for an SWU...
Strange thing is that the return leg also changed overnight (same night!) from J7 to J0. Seatmap shows 40% taken...
Mindblown... does anybody have any idea of what is going on ?
Thanks in advance!
I am an EF subscriber! Sorry if this should be posted somewhere else.
AA flight on EF changed overnight from J7 to J0 (AA) a week out.
Seatmap shows only 35% taken... what gives ? Did all seats got sold overnight ?
I am asking because I am waitlisted for an SWU...
Strange thing is that the return leg also changed overnight (same night!) from J7 to J0. Seatmap shows 40% taken...
Mindblown... does anybody have any idea of what is going on ?
Thanks in advance!
Sep 25, 2016, 11:03 am
#1225
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: YVR, HNL
Programs: AS 75k, UA peon, BA Bronze, AC E50k, Marriott Plat, HH Diamond, Fairmont Plat (RIP)
Posts: 7,832
Sorry if this question has been asked and answered before but, when searching, is there any way to fast forward through the calendar? For example, when searching for flights a year in advance. Is there a drop down box where I can just choose the month and year I want rather than having to arrow through the calendar month by month? Or a fast foward button that takes me to the same month one year later with one click? I use an ipad and prefer a desktop version than a mobile skin and it is such a pain to have to click on the little right arrow 12 times.
Sep 25, 2016, 12:06 pm
#1228
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
Sep 25, 2016, 1:18 pm
#1229
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: YVR, HNL
Programs: AS 75k, UA peon, BA Bronze, AC E50k, Marriott Plat, HH Diamond, Fairmont Plat (RIP)
Posts: 7,832
Sep 25, 2016, 7:31 pm
#1230
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 171
Problem with AA inventory
I've been getting strange results with AA showing phantom inventory for even the simplest query. Any problem with ITA I should be aware of?
Example: MIA-DEN on 10/15 still shows US$ 45.00 in O class whereas aa.com shows US$ 384+ for the same flight. EF doesn't even show O available on that date.
Example: MIA-DEN on 10/15 still shows US$ 45.00 in O class whereas aa.com shows US$ 384+ for the same flight. EF doesn't even show O available on that date.