lcy flyer

Please see the charts below for Mileage required by for a BKK-LHR return redemption award on a selection of Star Alliance Frequent Flyer Programs:

The first is the mileage required by a Star Alliance Mileage program before September 1st

Airline - FFP Name No of Miles
1 United - Mileage Plus 170,000
2 Eva Air - Infinity Miles 160,000
3 Sinagpore Air - Krisflyer 136,000
4 Lufthansa - Miles and More 135,000
5 Thai - Royal Orchid Plus 130,000
6 Asiana - Club 115,000
7 Turkish - Miles and Smiles 100,000
8 ANA - Mileage Club 90,000

At a requirement of 170,000 miles United is the most ‘expensive’ award on the list. Thai Royal Orchid Plus ranks at number 5 in this list. Compared to other programmes, the THAI awards do not look ‘undervalued’. They are around the same as Lufthansa Miles and More and Singapore Airlines KrisFlyer.

Now look at the chart AFTER September 1

Airline - FFP Name No of Miles
1 Thai - Royal Orchid Plus 260,000
2 United - Mileage Plus 170,000
3 Eva Air - Infinity Miles 160,000
4 Sinagpore Air - Krisflyer 136,000
5 Lufthansa - Miles and More 135,000
6 Asiana - Club 115,000
7 Turkish - Miles and Smiles 100,000
8 ANA - Mileage Club 90,000

MikeFromTokyo

This is good news. If TG continues to offer reduced mileage promotions (e.g. two for one redemptions, or half off redemptions) these new levels might not be as bad as they seem.

The new bonuses for J and F fares partially offset the devaluation. Also, some credit cards earn ROP miles at favorable rates.

My biggest concern with ROP is the three year mileage expiration policy. It would be a much more appealing program if miles could be kept indefinitely, provided that there were account activity at least every 18 months, for example (like AA and UA). This is one change that could improve the program in light of this devaluation.

11277m

My reply from Bangkok was identical to that received by lcy flyer, right down to the anonymity of the "sincerely yours, Royal Orchid Plus"

They say that members biggest request was better award availability, and then use that as a reason to double the cost of many awards.

What that does is not increase the availability, but drastically reduce the demand, because far fewer people can afford the awards. I guess that does in a way increase the availability, but only for those who have sufficient miles, by having flown twice as many paid flights.

In the future, a two-for-one offer or a half off redemption simply returns the cost to that of a standard award at the moment.

Using lcy flyer's table, 260,000 miles for a LHR-BKK Silk return would require a member to fly about 80,000 miles a year for three years to earn those miles!!! How many ROP Gold members can do that?

Sam Drucker

A few observations on this devaluation fiasco:

• I doubt it has anything to do with the military coup;
• This is a retroactive devaluation, since it impacts mileage earned in the past 3 years;
• ROP has no problem figuring out what mileage we earned and when we earned it for purposes of the rolling expiration. They COULD allow us to keep the present value of our current balances if they wanted to.
• These changes hit the premium cabins particularly hard. Perhaps reducing premium cabin award redemptions was the true intent of the quarterly rolling mileage expiration last year, since it effectively allows you to accumulate less mileage before some of it expires;
• Most major restructuring of award charts I've seen at other airlines normally comes with significantly more warning, usually on the order of 6 months to 1 year in advance.
• I've been involved in frequent flyer programs for over 30 years. I've never seen or heard of a devaluation of the magnitude we're seeing here now with THAI;
• The last two points make me seriously question if these decisions have been made by airline industry professionals at THAI. It just seems so . . . amateurish.
• At a time when THAI is already hurting and needs it's most loyal customers, it is shooting itself in the foot by alienating them.
• The positive spin THAI has put on this change really insults my intelligence.
• I joined ROP in 2006. This is the third time I've heard them use the justification that the award increases were to account for improved seating in the cabins. And in spite of that, they have degraded the seating on my primary award route (LAX) by downgrading from the 777-300ER to the 777-200ER.
• If memory serves correctly, since 2006 a Business Class award between Los Angeles and Bangkok has gone from 110,000 to 130,000 to 170,000 to now 340,000 miles (round trip).
• My feeling is that the new bonus miles for Golds and Platinums is simply an attempt at "tossing a bone" to some of those getting hurt by these changes. It's not worth nearly what's being lost here.
• I was a loyal customer who put up with flying domestically between Florida and Los Angeles to fly THAI. I can certainly find international flights much closer to home, and will certainly start looking at other carriers with these changes THAI is introducing.
• I have a feeling of betrayal by THAI.

yewgene

And to think, a month ago I was considering to start an account and crediting miles into ROP. Hmmm.

andyptrav

I fly LHR-BKK 9 or 10 times a year, mainly Y but usually at least 2 paid C together with a few stand-by upgrades.

I am sure I am missing something here but suppose I fly TG LHR-BKK and credit the miles to EVA Infinity, can I then buy a business return on EVA for 150,000? I read the EVA website 150,000 not 160,000. For 160,000 this is Star Alliance, so does this mean that for 160,000 you get TG LHR-BKK? Presumably somehow in the system TG are paying this fare, this has got to cost a great deal more than the marginal cost of giving you a seat on TG.

Also I note that you can get round the world Star Alliance from EVA in business for 325,000.

As for this from TG "Mileage increases and new technical capabilities will also enable promotional redemptions on an ongoing basis. Whether network wide or route and flight specific, these promotional redemption offers will be of great value and save you miles"

Fool me once... or pig in a poke. Unless the annual 50% discount to ROP Gold is written in the rules ROP does not seem to make any sense for me.

andyptrav

Excellent summary by Sam Drucker.

I have emailed TG on 01 July this:

I understand that ROP award redemption miles are to double. Surely this is madness, Thai Air are struggling due to intense competition in the airline industry and now the board decide to alienate their best customers. Many regular customers such as myself do not shop around with other airlines because of the award program. This change is also underhand, I have made buying decisions based on the awards promised and now this promise has been halved... However I look at this I feel I have been conned.

No reply yet.

11277m

I think this means "We will double the mileage requirements, then in the future we might from time to time slightly reduce them as a special offer"

11277m

.......and as a really special offer for our best customers we might once a year reduce the mileage back to what used to be a full-price award.....thanks THAI.

Oorinara

Great comparison by Icy flyer. Just to add on:
- SAS EuroBonus 86k for eco 140k for biz

kiam

Putting ANA at the cheapest redemption ranking may not be an apple to apple comparison when their earning rate on most non full fare economy classes is only 50% to start with. To me, their 90K is pretty much 150-180K.

We are all hurt by what TG just did, I'm curious how many of us are really going to walk away.

hco

I'm not walking away from TG but I am pretty sure I am walking away from my ROP branded credit cards unless Citi and Amex readjust the earning to compensate.

fattmatt20

yes that is a good idea to change to some other programme with the arrogant changes of Thai

lcy flyer

I have been in touch with TG Platinum AMEX. They say that they have introduced some offset including an option to pay off the outstanding billing amount due at a conversion rate of 3000 points = 500 baht.
To earn 1 TG AMEX point = 35 baht spend (excl special promos etc).
So 75,000 baht spend is roughly equal to 3000 points!

Fraserman

...and walk away from ROP to another *A program...