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Originally Posted by joshwex90
(Post 24035503)
But I really don't see the gaming part here. The likes are meant to identify helpful posters. Unlike post padding which people can do to "earn" higher post counts, people can't control their own likes (that they receive).
No one gets brownie points for liking other peoples' posts. It's about the likes they get, which is out of their control, barring writing something good or helpful I'm not trying to be dense or argumentative - I really think I must be missing something on the downside/potential for abuse |
Originally Posted by jackal
(Post 24033240)
1. Why do people post things? Why do they give back to the community? Because people like to know that they're helping people. The people who post helpful answers on FlyerTalk are doing it for the satisfaction of knowing that they are helping people and the reputation in the community that brings. 2. I think this proposal has the potential to substantially increase the amount of helpful content posted. It has the potential to motivate some of those knowledgeable travelers who have sat on the sidelines of FT to actually take the time to post helpful answers, because now instead of a nebulous "I think I'm helping people," people can actually easily get acknowledgment of their helpful posts and a concrete and specific "thanks" for that content. 3. I know for sure receiving "helpful" votes would motivate me to make sure I'm posting the best, most comprehensive answers I can and taking the time to post where I might otherwise be lazy and say, "I'll leave it for someone else to answer." 2. You're sure imbibing like with a lot of power it doesn't necessarily have & also downplaying the current responses FTers receive such as thanks/agree/+1/or something written out. Why you think like counts more than the others in terms of feedback is a bit perplexing. 3. Well if it takes a like/helpful to get you to post to help others & not doing so simply because you feel you can contribute, that's just disappointing. Cheers. |
Since the forum functions fine for discussion without likes or post votes, there must be a reason why this issue was grown from the original post where a member opined that such a system could cut down on extraneous posts which do nothing more than like a previous post.
I won't speak for IB and don't know the political matrix of FT; in the case of our forum, our site owner initiated the like system and share system (scripts for sharing posts with social media) to grow the forum's commercial aspects, both to increase his incremental revenues from ads as well as to maintain and grow the forum's ranking in its class, as it is currently at or near (depends on reporting period) the highest search engine ranking in its subject matter. If this is totally member-driven, please disregard. In our case, the members didn't care at all but, well, given a new toy, it got played with, some using it to build and others to tear down. Human nature I guess. |
Originally Posted by camachinist
(Post 24036910)
I won't speak for IB and don't know the political matrix of FT
Carol Community Director |
I don't see a need, or benefit, for this 'button'.
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Originally Posted by SkiAdcock
(Post 24036201)
1. Yes they do. And given that there has not been a like to date, yet we have thousands of helpful posts all over FT it appears that they do so for the very reason you mention - giving back to the community - and not because of an artificial like.
Originally Posted by SkiAdcock
(Post 24036201)
2. You're sure imbibing like with a lot of power it doesn't necessarily have & also downplaying the current responses FTers receive such as thanks/agree/+1/or something written out. Why you think like counts more than the others in terms of feedback is a bit perplexing.
Originally Posted by SkiAdcock
(Post 24036201)
3. Well if it takes a like/helpful to get you to post to help others & not doing so simply because you feel you can contribute, that's just disappointing.
I simply made a statement of fact of how it works in real life for me. I guess you can be disappointed with me all you want, but you know first-hand that I'm a pretty helpful poster, so I think I'm allowed to say that sometimes I don't feel like putting the energy into making a post. And if receiving some concrete appreciation for making a post would help me to overcome that, then how is that a disappointing or bad thing? By the way, I don't think I'm alone in making that statement. |
Originally Posted by camachinist
(Post 24036910)
Since the forum functions fine for discussion without likes or post votes, there must be a reason why this issue was grown from the original post where a member opined that such a system could cut down on extraneous posts which do nothing more than like a previous post.
I won't speak for IB and don't know the political matrix of FT; in the case of our forum, our site owner initiated the like system and share system (scripts for sharing posts with social media) to grow the forum's commercial aspects, both to increase his incremental revenues from ads as well as to maintain and grow the forum's ranking in its class, as it is currently at or near (depends on reporting period) the highest search engine ranking in its subject matter. If this is totally member-driven, please disregard. In our case, the members didn't care at all but, well, given a new toy, it got played with, some using it to build and others to tear down. Human nature I guess. Speaking of human nature on FT, I have no doubt that this tool will turn out to be very "helpful" for exacerbating the challenges that already take place on FT, as between the following types of groups: company apologists vs non-apologists; DHS/TSA apologists vs non-DHS apologists; other Party A vs Party B. |
Originally Posted by GUWonder
(Post 24038612)
While FT CD gets the word on whether this feature stays in trial and then gets pulled or whether it gets more broadly implemented, there is no doubt in my mind that this tool was created for the purposes you mention -- that being to grow the commercial aspects for IB.
Originally Posted by SanDiego1K
(Post 24037035)
I am the one who went to IB. I asked because of the discussion in this forum. I wanted to see if such a function was possible. Otherwise, there was a lot of needless discussion. IB said yes, there was an existing plug in. If we wanted it, we could have it. I asked if there was any value to IB. I was told no, at least not in its present form. So this is FTers deciding what would be best for FT with no input by our owners. It is the exception when IB imposes anything on FT. We are genuinely a member driven board.
Carol Community Director |
jackal, what do you think of having a button, but posters not have counts?
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Thanks for the clarification. I did note the like counter had gone away this morning so figured there was a back-end change.
I would vote for members to not have a counter, at least not a publicly visible one which could be drilled down to individual posts, but my understanding is that change is a hack rather than something canned, so some non-standard coding is required. I base that on interactions at vB.org because I was trying to sell our site owner on doing away with the counters! :D |
Originally Posted by GUWonder
(Post 24038612)
Speaking of human nature on FT, I have no doubt that this tool will turn out to be very "helpful" for exacerbating the challenges that already take place on FT, as between the following types of groups: company apologists vs non-apologists; DHS/TSA apologists vs non-DHS apologists; other Party A vs Party B. |
Originally Posted by camachinist
(Post 24038985)
I would vote for members to not have a counter, at least not a publicly visible one which could be drilled down to individual posts, but my understanding is that change is a hack rather than something canned, so some non-standard coding is required. I base that on interactions at vB.org because I was trying to sell our site owner on doing away with the counters! :D
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Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri
(Post 24038928)
jackal, what do you think of having a button, but posters not have counts?
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Originally Posted by jackal
(Post 24037665)
1. Thousands? We could have tens of thousands. 2. A few percent of people will bother to post a "Thanks." A much, much higher proportion will click a simple "Helpful" button. 3. Who likes to put energy into a vacuum? If no one ever responded to your posts, would you really put forth a lot of effort to make them? If so, you're a better person than I am. 2. An assumption. I've seen many threads that people posts Thanks, add additional information, or post +1. Will some use like if it's implemented. Sure. However, many won't & will still post thanks, +1, etc. 3. I post information on FT to be helpful - not because I expect a "reward" for doing so. Reminds me of being at a conference once. Speaker gave a great presentation. Friend of mine said to the speaker thanks so much for the info; it's really helpful. Speaker says you're welcome. Friend says later he was a bit put off by the response. Me, why? Him, well he didn't say thank you. Me, so you wanted to be thanked for your thanks? That's what this reminds me of. Cheers. |
Originally Posted by SkiAdcock
(Post 24041184)
1. We already have tens of thousands. I didn't want to be accused of hyperbole, so I simply said thousands. You seem to think that by implementing a like feature that this is suddenly going to mean thousands more will post. I think you over-exaggerate the power of like. It's basically intended to be a replacement for +1, etc, from what has been posted in this thread & supposedly will decrease the +1s. The +1s will still happen. 2. An assumption. I've seen many threads that people posts Thanks, add additional information, or post +1. Will some use like if it's implemented. Sure. However, many won't & will still post thanks, +1, etc. 3. I post information on FT to be helpful - not because I expect a "reward" for doing so. Reminds me of being at a conference once. Speaker gave a great presentation. Friend of mine said to the speaker thanks so much for the info; it's really helpful. Speaker says you're welcome. Friend says later he was a bit put off by the response. Me, why? Him, well he didn't say thank you. Me, so you wanted to be thanked for your thanks? That's what this reminds me of. Cheers. Agree. Anyone who wants to run up a bunch of fawning 'likes' go and start a Facebook account. It is all there. FT is about travel and points. Facebook is not. :) Plenty of folks hare have made 10,000, 20,000, 50,000 posts etc over a decade or more, as they are happy to add to the FT Community. They need no "like" or "helpful" button or $10 Pizza Hut coupon etc for adding to the data base here, and never have. This "feature" was trialled years ago. A bunch of jackasses abused it horribly, and Randy needed to bang a lot of heads very hard, threatened lifetime suspensions, and he canned the entire mess. Many of those same folks are still on FT and it is the view of many it will be abused again if initiated. Those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat the same mistakes. @:-)@:-)@:-)@:-) . |
I don't like the idea of "like", but see that the idea has now morphed into being "helpful".
I thought that the really helpful stuff was already noted by the community by being added to the relevant wiki for the forum. Why would we need more? Just because some other social media does it? This site is, in the main, about exchanging useful information and not discussing what the breakfast menu consisted of (except when in flight ;)) and other such vapid ephemera. I vote no!! |
As I posted elsewhere we already have our own Facebook rip-off "Friends Thingo", have had it for YEARS, and it has been an abject failure I'd say.
FT has what 300,000 members = exactly how MANY have used it ever? That is a relevant question I assume no-one as ever asked IB! It it were even 2% I'd be amazed. Let that guide Talkboard if in fact they think this "button" is not already a done deal, which it sadly does seem to me has occurred, the more I read. It has been "trialled" in recent weeks by mods and TB members and goodness knows who else bothered to use it as it was added to many profiles.
Originally Posted by ozstamps
(Post 23976752)
We already have a "Friends" thingy in each FT profile, that I turned off on Day #1 that it was announced many years back. Again those who want FT to be Mini Facebook for some odd reason, can use that function if they wish. It seems to me few use that anyway, so that is a relevant pointer to this discussion. |
Originally Posted by philemer
(Post 24037184)
I don't see a need, or benefit, for this 'button'.
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Originally Posted by SkiAdcock
(Post 24041184)
Reminds me of being at a conference once. Speaker gave a great presentation. Friend of mine said to the speaker thanks so much for the info; it's really helpful. Speaker says you're welcome. Friend says later he was a bit put off by the response. Me, why? Him, well he didn't say thank you. Me, so you wanted to be thanked for your thanks? That's what this reminds me of.
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Originally Posted by jackal
(Post 24042792)
I think you just made my point for me. People like to be thanked and appreciated, whether you think it's necessary or appropriate or not.
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Originally Posted by joshwex90
(Post 24042921)
Agreed - furthermore, the person agreed it was necessary to thank the speaker for the helpful info in the first place
Cheers. |
Originally Posted by ozstamps
(Post 24041402)
Let that guide Talkboard if in fact they think this "button" is not already a done deal, which it sadly does seem to me has occurred, the more I read.
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Originally Posted by Canarsie
(Post 24043555)
I can assure you that it is not a “done deal” with me...
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
(Post 24044230)
A trial of sort of this has already taken place this month prior to it even being voted on by TalkBoard.
With perhaps one or two exceptions, I never used the “like” button feature on Milepoint; and I do not intend to use it if implemented on FlyerTalk. I also do not subscribe to Facebook. That will not cloud how I vote if a vote should come to pass, as I am reading the opinions of fellow FlyerTalk members; but as of now, the poll and the opinions are not overwhelmingly supportive of such a feature — although the gap has been narrowing... |
Originally Posted by GUWonder
(Post 24044230)
The proposal was about whether or not to trial something like this? A trial of sort of this has already taken place this month prior to it even being voted on by TalkBoard. I wouldn't be surprised if another trial re-starts in some way or another.
Unless you plan on accusing her of starting another trial without the TalkBoard's involvement, I do not understand the relevance of your post to this thread. |
Originally Posted by jackal
(Post 24044595)
It seems as if you have SanDiego1K on your ignore list. She has addressed this point and others you've brought up multiple times, yet it seems that you haven't read what she has posted.
I don't use the "Ignore" FT feature; and I, to the best of my mind, never have used that FT feature. I have read all of the FT CD's posts in this thread -- definitely not all were reviewed in the most timely manner possible -- but then again timely omniscience is certainly not a human feature. Perhaps this is a sign of a language-choice issue, but some sort of trial was already a "done deal" in the opinion of at least two FTers here. Fortunately, none of us here have a monopoly on what that means or doesn't mean, so opinions on whether or not that is the right way to characterize what has happened so far is going to vary. Even after having repeatedly re-read all this thread's posts made in the past week, opinions about this -- the language choice -- will vary. I wouldn't be surprised if another trial re-starts in some way or another -- just stating what would not surprise me. |
The definitive answers to how the trial came about are situated in this thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...-profiles.html.
The "like" or other indicator of presumed value is not a "done deal" at all. IB tech wanted to see how the feature built into vB might work here, and they were unprepared for the visibility in profiles. |
I find these types of "voting buttons" to be absolutely useless. They would only serve to clutter up pages that are already way too cluttered. The first thing I would do would be to write a GreaseMonkey script to hide them.
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Originally Posted by mahasamatman
(Post 24045219)
I find these types of "voting buttons" to be absolutely useless. They would only serve to clutter up pages that are already way too cluttered. The first thing I would do would be to write a GreaseMonkey script to hide them.
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Originally Posted by goalie
(Post 24045304)
^ Please vote no in the poll if you haven't done so already and urge your friends to do the same
I "like" this sentiment :D:D:D |
Originally Posted by Canarsie
(Post 24044290)
...
That will not cloud how I vote if a vote should come to pass, as I am reading the opinions of fellow FlyerTalk members; but as of now, the poll and the opinions are not overwhelmingly supportive of such a feature — although the gap has been narrowing... |
Originally Posted by SkiAdcock
(Post 24043176)
Please do not put words into my mouth. I didn't agree it was necessary to thank the speaker for the info (fwiw - I thought the speaker was regurgitating a bunch of stuff, but hey he got paid $10,000 to regurgitate. Also I was not the individual who thanked him). I provided the story of someone wanting to be thanked for thanking someone as an example opposite of what you & jackal seem to think I was saying & as back-up of how the like thing could run amok.
Cheers. I come from a place where thanking is considered appropriate when receiving helpful advice. Regardless, I don't think the "thanks" or "like" or "helpful" button should be there just for polite manners. |
In its latest iteration, the British Army Rumour Service (arrse.co.uk) introduced a set of buttons visible for each post. Categories include: Like; Dislike; Funny; Informative; Bull....: Old [news/information].
That may be a bit excessive, and as I rarely go there these days I'm not quite sure how well its working. But certainly the option of "Helpful" and "Like" seem a possible benefit when trawling through long/complex Threads. At the very least it might reduce the " ^ +1 " posts, which then often lead to a side-discussion or similar " ^ " posts. |
Originally Posted by antichef
(Post 24045881)
When I voted against it, it seemed that just over 100 people had voted "for". Considering the size of the membership, it is not exactly a groundswell of opinion!
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I would probably settle for two acknowledgement buttons.
1. Like 2. Helpful Like to be used to highlight points of view which argue for alternative presentations (including humorous insights to pedantic presentations) Helpful to support comments which actually clarify or present new opportunities to understand airline policies (to the benefit of the FFer population) Happy wandering Fred |
Originally Posted by jackal
(Post 24037665)
And if receiving some concrete appreciation for making a post would help ... to overcome [inertia], then how is that a disappointing or bad thing?
By the way, I don't think I'm alone in making that statement. |
My first reaction on hearing of this was, "What is this, Facebook?" It seems to me that FT is about conversations, not collecting "likes". If a posting is meaningful it will inspire further postings.
Also, even if IB claims that they would get no benefit from this feature, anything that increases the number of clicks and page views DOES enhance their ad revenue. |
Originally Posted by SkiAdcock
(Post 23502670)
Speaking only for myself I'd much rather they put their efforts into a decent mobile app given how many people now access websites, bbs that way, vs doing news or like. Having a decent mobile app would benefit more of our 500,000 members than news or like. I had originally voted "yes" in the poll, on the basis that the concept seemed harmless and if folks wanted it, why not. But if I had to do it over, I'd vote "no" for two reasons. One, the "opposition" arguments have swayed me more, and two, having now lost the old FT app when I switched to a new android phone, I'd prefer IB's time and resources be spent on that rather than a frivolous new feature. |
Originally Posted by 84fiero
(Post 24057036)
+1,000 on that.
I had originally voted "yes" in the poll, on the basis that the concept seemed harmless and if folks wanted it, why not. But if I had to do it over, I'd vote "no" for two reasons. One, the "opposition" arguments have swayed me more, and two, having now lost the old FT app when I switched to a new android phone, I'd prefer IB's time and resources be spent on that rather than a frivolous new feature. Can this feature -- or poll voting -- be set up so that all members may know who is voting and how they voted/liked? If so, how easily can that be done? The previous rating/voting/like system on FT was less "anonymous" than some had expected it to be. |
Originally Posted by GUWonder
(Post 24057804)
This feature is already a done deal and pretty much ready to go.
Can this feature -- or poll voting -- be set up so that all members may know who is voting and how they voted/liked? If so, how easily can that be done? The previous rating/voting/like system on FT was less "anonymous" than some had expected it to be. I prefer the confidentiality of the ballot box, frankly. How I chose to vote [or indeed not] should not be deemed public information. |
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