FlyerTalk Forums

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   TalkBoard Topics (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics-382/)
-   -   "Like" Button? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/1493052-like-button.html)

nkedel Jan 14, 2015 12:04 am


Originally Posted by OverThereTooMuch (Post 24163037)

* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
This can be done today, and is entirely unrelated to a voting system (use the favorites/bookmarks option of your browser).

...or by subscribing to the thread, which will then show up in "MyFlyertalk" (for really high-priority stuff, you can even have it email you.)

On a shared level, there are also sticky threads, and stuff that goes out in TalkMail or on the front page.

WineCountryUA Jan 14, 2015 12:25 am


Originally Posted by tcook052 (Post 24160213)
I'm less confident as I can see on some forums and threads a snarky reply to a new member earning a bunch of 'helpful' votes even though the post wasn't helpful at all but quite the opposite. Others may agree, for example, that new members should dig for rather than be spoon fed answers and so could use the tool as a sign of agreement with the snark rather than its intended purpose.

I'm not convinced this is actually something FT needs this far along the line regardless of what others sites do on the topic. Just MHO.

My concerns are along these lines. In controversial / polarized discussion I see this "like"/"helpful" as just another way for the fractions to express their differences and PROVE one position is more right than another. (And a Dislike would make it even worst.) While in a nice clam/civil/factual world, the like could be useful, much of FT has an edge and this concept will just sharpen that edge. The nature of FT is just different from FB.

So in case it isn't clear, I think this would be a bad change for FT. I do not see the value and I see problems.

Himeno Jan 14, 2015 3:56 am

I would rather see FT shut down completely then have any sort of "like" system dumped on everyone.

If this useless, unnecessary waste happens, there must be a way for a user to completely disable it, as they can with signatures and setting others to ignore.

amunter Jan 14, 2015 10:18 am


Originally Posted by OverThereTooMuch (Post 24163037)
How do you think it is taken care of with self-policing? Not sure how that would work.

People clearly think that post count is a valid metric that means something here @ FT. Some people with a lot of posts often tend to get away with a lot of crap that doesn't belong. If they now also have a lot of "likes", most people won't look to see if they were really deserved. They'll just trust the system.

An off-topic aside as preamble - I think one reason (certainly not the only, but one) that people inflate their post count is that they are incentivized to get into the habit of it upon joining FT. Because there are barriers to full access that can only be reached upon hitting certain post counts, there is already an apparent reason to "game" that part of the system. I'm not necessarily advocating change in that mechanism, and even if I were, I wouldn't do it in this thread. But just an aside.

There will always be a (reasonably small, I think) subset of people who - for either competitiveness or self-worth reasons - will take a new metric and make it their mission to game it. I don't think that's a reason to avoid change, although it is an argument to proceed carefully (e.g., with a limited rollout) and observe the results.

My comment about self-policing is that anybody who has done some reading on FT for some time starts to build a list (or a fuzzy sketch or a hazy image or however your brain works) in their head of who is reliable/helpful/thoughtful/funny/"a good poster" - however you define that - and who is not. Heck, just reading through a couple of hundred messages in this one thread can give you that sense. So if someone's posts are inaccurate, thoughtless, or always written in screaming all caps, yet they garnered 100 likes, observers will modify their mental list/sketch/impression accordingly.

The person will be self-liking into ridiculousness. Plus, I heard that if you self-like too much, your hand will freeze that way. :D

MSPeconomist Jan 14, 2015 10:21 am


Originally Posted by intuition (Post 24142600)
This is an interesting observation. In many ways. I think it says quite a lot about the TB elections, but to stay on topic, I'll keep it to this poll.
Nsx said the reason for re-opening this feature request was his pledge to his constituency, so a support of some 385 votes in this poll is to be expected. Some of the proponents are campaigning for this poll while I haven't seen any of opponents do, so I guess that means the final result will be a majority of 'support' when the poll closes.

But if the like feature was the main platform of nsx's TB candidacy, what does another poll really say that the TB election didn't say? Are we just polling nsx's TB candidacy all over again?

Of course we can't know that each poll'er meant by their vote. My point is a poll can only go so far in aiding the TB for a decision. I think we elect a complete TB to make balanced and informed decisions for us using all available information. A poll can be given more or less weight depending on circumstances, but I guess what I am saying is that it still is just a poll.

I very much appreciate TB having this thread open and nsx for returning to the thread and keeping outlining his thoughts. I've seen a lot of very good comments here and I hope this thread have been as helpful to TB as intended. At this point I find it difficult to add anything substantial.

Please reduce that number to 384. As I explained in response to the TB election debate question of who else I planned to vote for, I voted for nsx because of the leadership qualities he exhibited during his earlier one-year term as TB President (which was my first year on TB). In fact, I voted for him despite his platform, not because of it.

steveman518 Jan 14, 2015 3:48 pm


Originally Posted by Himeno (Post 24163932)
I would rather see FT shut down completely then have any sort of "like" system dumped on everyone.

If this useless, unnecessary waste happens, there must be a way for a user to completely disable it, as they can with signatures and setting others to ignore.

I feel like it wouldn't work. The facebook comparisons of the "like" button working don't make any sense because [overgeneralization] facebook is essentially like an adult tumblr where people post click-bait links and stupid "self-righteous" topics decrying various issues while not actually wanting to do anything about it (and nothing happens because no one on FB or tumblr actually does their research) resulting in factions that will automatically strike down any opposing thoughts and spread blatant lie to fit their narrative [/overgeneralization], which seems to be the exact opposite of what FT is for


Originally Posted by WineCountryUA (Post 24163416)
My concerns are along these lines. In controversial / polarized discussion I see this "like"/"helpful" as just another way for the fractions to express their differences and PROVE one position is more right than another. (And a Dislike would make it even worst.) While in a nice clam/civil/factual world, the like could be useful, much of FT has an edge and this concept will just sharpen that edge. The nature of FT is just different from FB.

So in case it isn't clear, I think this would be a bad change for FT. I do not see the value and I see problems.

I feel like this would be very bad particularly for the UA board with people still waging the pmUA and pmCO battles every once in a while

JonNYC Jan 14, 2015 6:25 pm


Originally Posted by steveman518 (Post 24167943)
...I feel like this would be very bad particularly for the UA board with people still waging the pmUA and pmCO battles every once in a while

I'd argue though that those engaging in the pointless "battles" (we have the same at AA presently) deserve what they get; if their "friends" or "allies" want to play games with "helpful" votes, it's stupid, but not much stupider than the thread itself at that point.

On the other had, those discussing miles, status-- how to use them, get them, etc., etc.-- while there very well be stupid use of "helpful" in those discussions/threads for all the reason presented in this thread-- they should still be able to thank a member for their contribution/knowledge or simply be able to help others find "the good stuff" with such use of the feature.

Of course I say this as the author of some of the most historically helpful posts/threads on flyertalk-- so that may color my view slightly. :D

Canarsie Jan 14, 2015 6:30 pm


Originally Posted by JonNYC (Post 24168741)
Of course I say this as the author of some of the most historically helpful posts/threads on flyertalk-- so that may color my view slightly. :D

I think you have every right to be proud of your positive contributions to FlyerTalk, for what it is worth.

Forget the “like.” Instead, thank you...

JonNYC Jan 14, 2015 6:39 pm


Originally Posted by Canarsie (Post 24168763)
I think you have every right to be proud of your positive contributions to FlyerTalk, for what it is worth.

Forget the “like.” Instead, thank you...

Thanks you VERY much for the kind words!

kipper Jan 14, 2015 7:19 pm


Originally Posted by JonNYC (Post 24168741)
I'd argue though that those engaging in the pointless "battles" (we have the same at AA presently) deserve what they get; if their "friends" or "allies" want to play games with "helpful" votes, it's stupid, but not much stupider than the thread itself at that point.

On the other had, those discussing miles, status-- how to use them, get them, etc., etc.-- while there very well be stupid use of "helpful" in those discussions/threads for all the reason presented in this thread-- they should still be able to thank a member for their contribution/knowledge or simply be able to help others find "the good stuff" with such use of the feature.

Of course I say this as the author of some of the most historically helpful posts/threads on flyertalk-- so that may color my view slightly. :D

Without a "helpful" button, members can still thank others for their contributions by posting "thank you" or something similar. I'd argue that a "thank you" post would be more meaningful than a "helpful" button being clicked, because it takes more to post "thank you," rather than just clicking a button.

JonNYC Jan 14, 2015 7:22 pm


Originally Posted by kipper (Post 24168966)
Without a "helpful" button, members can still thank others for their contributions by posting "thank you" or something similar. I'd argue that a "thank you" post would be more meaningful than a "helpful" button being clicked, because it takes more to post "thank you," rather than just clicking a button.

No doubt about it, agree completely. Although-- and I certainly respect that not everyone shares this as one of their concerns the way I do-- that -does- than bring up the issue of thread-clutter.

MSPeconomist Jan 14, 2015 7:24 pm

People can also use PMs or email to thank others for being especially helpful. This might be more meaningful to the recipient than a public (possibly anonymous) click of some like button.

JonNYC Jan 14, 2015 7:43 pm


Originally Posted by MSPeconomist (Post 24168991)
People can also use PMs or email to thank others for being especially helpful. This might be more meaningful to the recipient than a public (possibly anonymous) click of some like button.

You're talkin to a guy that gets a LOT of those :), and they are FAR more meaningful, no question about it.

But I'd maintain that seeing a post you find helpful and indicating same, and the ability for others to see that, -does- serve a purpose (a purpose beyond the "ego-boost", etc.-- whatever is being claimed) for other, mostly newer members.

Obviously not everyone agrees-- some disagree strenuously-- and that's great. But, personally-- and obviously a chunk of people agree and others violently disagree-- I think it's a simple addition that would help and make FT a better and more informative place. Personally, I do not see it as remotely similar to the role "like" plays on Facebook in any way, shape or form.

OverThereTooMuch Jan 14, 2015 8:26 pm


Originally Posted by amunter (Post 24165685)
There will always be a (reasonably small, I think) subset of people who - for either competitiveness or self-worth reasons - will take a new metric and make it their mission to game it. I don't think that's a reason to avoid change, although it is an argument to proceed carefully (e.g., with a limited rollout) and observe the results.

Great points.

Originally Posted by amunter (Post 24165685)
My comment about self-policing is that anybody who has done some reading on FT for some time starts to build a list (or a fuzzy sketch or a hazy image or however your brain works) in their head of who is reliable/helpful/thoughtful/funny/"a good poster" - however you define that - and who is not.

I'd agree, except I'd say you have to pretty much be a forum "regular" to understand that. Post count & titles are prominently displayed. People think the titles mean something. The more casual FT user - which I'd probably say is someone that has maybe a couple of posts per month - probably wouldn't notice that. So if they make the votes/# of "helpful" threads visible to the community, then there will be yet another misleading metric presented to people.

Originally Posted by amunter (Post 24165685)
Heck, just reading through a couple of hundred messages in this one thread can give you that sense.

Or it gives you a great appreciation for the "ignore" list, as you can scroll through the thread and skip hundreds of messages and not really miss out on anything :p

HansGolden Jan 14, 2015 9:26 pm

I'm glad TB is moving on this and the clear majority of FTers wants this! ^


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 9:40 am.


This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.