View Poll Results: Q: What is your view on FlyerTalk implementing a "Helpful" button feature?
Support
433
59.72%
Oppose
275
37.93%
No opinion
17
2.34%
Voters: 725. You may not vote on this poll
Jan 12, 2015, 9:07 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
Signed in members with 90 days / 90 posts can edit this Wikipost; wiki contents may be printed by using the 
(lower right wiki corner)
Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Makes Flyertalk more modern; more like Facebook, LinkedIn, and other progressive internet bulletin boards
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people won’t take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes it easier for airlines/companies to find mistake fares/glitches/underground tricks
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
* Older posts will tend to have more likes/helpfuls on average than newer posts in the same thread, which can be misleading when the information is out-of-date. [added by MSPeconomist]
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
* Can users "opt out" and select to remove all trace of the system, as is currently possible with the ignore list and removing view of signatures?
(lower right wiki corner)Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Makes Flyertalk more modern; more like Facebook, LinkedIn, and other progressive internet bulletin boards
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people won’t take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes it easier for airlines/companies to find mistake fares/glitches/underground tricks
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
* Older posts will tend to have more likes/helpfuls on average than newer posts in the same thread, which can be misleading when the information is out-of-date. [added by MSPeconomist]
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
* Can users "opt out" and select to remove all trace of the system, as is currently possible with the ignore list and removing view of signatures?
"Like" Button?
Sep 17, 2013, 2:21 pm
#46
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Programs: UALifetimePremierGold, Marriott LifetimeTitanium
Posts: 71,114
And implying that a simple like will solve everything isn't very persuasive to me. 
Some will like like & do it; others won't & will still do +1. To imply that +1 doesn't provide positive feedback is inaccurate. Bit silly to think otherwise. FTers will choose their own methods of providing positive reinforcement, whether it be like, +1, or actually writing in appreciation. @:-)
I can say that even if I vote for like (should we actually get to that stage), I won't be voting for the big yellow thing you've got going there. That's as bad as the gazillion frigging avatars on MP.
Cheers.
Some will like like & do it; others won't & will still do +1. To imply that +1 doesn't provide positive feedback is inaccurate. Bit silly to think otherwise. FTers will choose their own methods of providing positive reinforcement, whether it be like, +1, or actually writing in appreciation. @:-)
I can say that even if I vote for like (should we actually get to that stage), I won't be voting for the big yellow thing you've got going there. That's as bad as the gazillion frigging avatars on MP.
Cheers.
Sep 17, 2013, 3:08 pm
#47
Moderator: Smoking Lounge; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: Lifetime (for now) Gold MM, HH Gold, Giving Tootsie Pops to UA employees, & a retired hockey goalie
Posts: 28,878
And implying that a simple like will solve everything isn't very persuasive to me.
Some will like like & do it; others won't & will still do +1. To imply that +1 doesn't provide positive feedback is inaccurate. Bit silly to think otherwise. FTers will choose their own methods of providing positive reinforcement, whether it be like, +1, or actually writing in appreciation. @:-)
I can say that even if I vote for like (should we actually get to that stage), I won't be voting for the big yellow thing you've got going there. That's as bad as the gazillion frigging avatars on MP.
Cheers.
Some will like like & do it; others won't & will still do +1. To imply that +1 doesn't provide positive feedback is inaccurate. Bit silly to think otherwise. FTers will choose their own methods of providing positive reinforcement, whether it be like, +1, or actually writing in appreciation. @:-)
I can say that even if I vote for like (should we actually get to that stage), I won't be voting for the big yellow thing you've got going there. That's as bad as the gazillion frigging avatars on MP.
Cheers.
Sep 17, 2013, 6:04 pm
#48
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ICT
Programs: AA ExP
Posts: 1,860
That's a strawman. No one has said 100% of people will never make a +1 post again. What I (and others) have been saying is that a large majority will indeed click "+1" or click "Like" instead of posting a reply with the typed out letters "+1". Also, no one has said typing out +1 does not provide positive feedback.
(Wikipedia: "A straw man or straw person, also known in the UK as an Aunt Sally, is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and to refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position. This technique has been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly in arguments about highly charged, emotional issues.")
I wouldn't either.
Sep 18, 2013, 3:45 am
#49
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Programs: UALifetimePremierGold, Marriott LifetimeTitanium
Posts: 71,114
Ah, I need a 'hint' to say what I think & what others have suggested & even an education lesson to boot on what I mean/say. Got it. 
Not really a strawman, but you go for it Hans.
Hey, at least we're in agreement on the big ugly yellow thing & hopefully not implementing a gazillion avatars. Talk about a waste of real estate
As I mentioned I'm not set one way or the other on this. While I wouldn't find it useful as I usually base my thoughts on what's actually posted & not a +1 or like, I know others would like it (pun intended ).
Cheers.
Not really a strawman, but you go for it Hans. Hey, at least we're in agreement on the big ugly yellow thing & hopefully not implementing a gazillion avatars.
Talk about a waste of real estate As I mentioned I'm not set one way or the other on this. While I wouldn't find it useful as I usually base my thoughts on what's actually posted & not a +1 or like
, I know others would like it (pun intended ).Cheers.
Sep 18, 2013, 12:10 pm
#50
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ICT
Programs: AA ExP
Posts: 1,860
Sep 18, 2013, 6:57 pm
#51
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,797
why not reformat to - "these people agree with this post" and not having any numbers or counters or statistics
Oct 15, 2013, 9:07 pm
#52
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Reston, Virginia
Posts: 179
Amazon Has A Similar Approach for Reviews
Amazon allows readers to indicate whether a review was helpful, thus allowing users to sift through the bulk of reviews to focus on comments that others found helpful. A think a similar mechanism here would enhance the utility of FT.
Oct 16, 2013, 8:50 pm
#53
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
As an Amazon user, I find that a very easy system to use, as well as useful when choosing reviews to read. I suspect it's easier to implement on VB, and it takes up very little space.
If a ratings system is to be plemented, maybe this is the one besteetimg the KISS criterion and may be the least susceptible to abuse as well.
If a ratings system is to be plemented, maybe this is the one besteetimg the KISS criterion and may be the least susceptible to abuse as well.
Oct 16, 2013, 10:23 pm
#54
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Rio de Janeiro
Programs: AA / AV
Posts: 647
I think a rating system for posts would greatly enhance FT's value and also streamline some of the more debated threads; so it would be even better, in my view, to vote up and down each post, such as in some disquus fora.
This would be a somewhat gentle way of saying, without censoring, that the community agree / does not agree with what someone is saying, and I believe it would abbreviate some more "stubborn" discussions.
Amazon has an indirect way to to this, geared to their circumstances, as they push to the forefront the reviews that are more helpfull (this would not be directly possible here) and even, in the discussions that follow, they put as out-of-view a post that had been massively down voted.
This would be a somewhat gentle way of saying, without censoring, that the community agree / does not agree with what someone is saying, and I believe it would abbreviate some more "stubborn" discussions.
Amazon has an indirect way to to this, geared to their circumstances, as they push to the forefront the reviews that are more helpfull (this would not be directly possible here) and even, in the discussions that follow, they put as out-of-view a post that had been massively down voted.
Oct 17, 2013, 9:01 am
#55
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Yiron, Israel
Programs: Bates Motel Plat
Posts: 68,930
Both of these systems were badly abused by an immature group of people who used them to gang up on people they did not like.
Where he is wrong is in saying "the whole system was anonymous". That was true in the beginning but Randy then changed the system (in so far as "Reputation" was concerned) and did so retroactively. At that point, the abuse stopped.
I have absolutely no problem with the OP's suggestion as long as it is not anonymous.
Oct 23, 2013, 7:11 am
#56
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Popularity contests, gotta luv 'em.
The "abuse" didn't stop even when the founder of FT did the "de-anonymous" thing after the "reputation" feature was turned on and used in ways that some of its fans didn't anticipate.
The "abuse" didn't stop even when the founder of FT did the "de-anonymous" thing after the "reputation" feature was turned on and used in ways that some of its fans didn't anticipate.
Oct 27, 2013, 4:28 pm
#57
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,625
Being able to filter on Helpfulness would probably be very hard for vBulletin, but you never know for sure unless you ask.
I'm leaning toward asking IB what it would take to implement separate icons for Agree and for Helpful. (Or use Thanks for Helpful if Amazon has some legal monopoly on that term.) Second I would like to ask whether filtering posts on Helpful rating would be feasible.
If people used the Wiki feature more often, filtering might not be necessary. On the other hand, filtering would be a great tool for people looking for the best content to add to a Wiki.
Nov 19, 2013, 5:13 pm
#58
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
I think a rating system for posts would greatly enhance FT's value and also streamline some of the more debated threads; so it would be even better, in my view, to vote up and down each post, such as in some disquus fora.
This would be a somewhat gentle way of saying, without censoring, that the community agree / does not agree with what someone is saying, and I believe it would abbreviate some more "stubborn" discussions.
Amazon has an indirect way to to this, geared to their circumstances, as they push to the forefront the reviews that are more helpfull (this would not be directly possible here) and even, in the discussions that follow, they put as out-of-view a post that had been massively down voted.
This would be a somewhat gentle way of saying, without censoring, that the community agree / does not agree with what someone is saying, and I believe it would abbreviate some more "stubborn" discussions.
Amazon has an indirect way to to this, geared to their circumstances, as they push to the forefront the reviews that are more helpfull (this would not be directly possible here) and even, in the discussions that follow, they put as out-of-view a post that had been massively down voted.
I don't particularly like <rimshot> the MilePoint "like" system. Of course I do use it since it's what they have, but I'm not sure it adds as much value as a couple of the other ideas above. It ties into the "status" system on MP, which again is of questionable value - I wouldn't want to see that setup here on FT, personally.
Nov 21, 2013, 7:25 pm
#59
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: PDX
Programs: HHonors Gold since '02, Hertz President's Circle since '07
Posts: 3,226
There are threads like this one that need this option:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hertz...s-only-12.html
And this one:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hotel...elzoo-etc.html
We need to be able to say thank you without adding to the clutter. It will encourage more people to contribute.
And to the many who have posted in this thread it has no value to them, what harm is it? You can ignore it, and ignore it easier than all the "thank you" posts.
Nov 26, 2013, 5:47 pm
#60
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: RDU
Programs: A few
Posts: 5,499
Ha ok so this is one thread with one too many "like" gags but that won't stop me stringing it along...
.... I do think FT seriously, seriously needs some way to better differentiate contributors than post count. I am frustrated by certain posted with "evangelist" status who make posts that are 100% factually incorrect. Of course I won't name names, but there are some folks here who have over 10k posts and will come into a discussion and make a statement as if it's complete fact and I just know it's wrong. I need a way to thumbs down these people, and people need to be able to thumbs up the people who make genuinely useful contributions. I don't think "liking" individual posts does anything to fix that unless likes gets linked to some overall score but I think something along the lines of SlickDeals rep system could be very helpful here to distinguish those who just post endless junk.
.... I do think FT seriously, seriously needs some way to better differentiate contributors than post count. I am frustrated by certain posted with "evangelist" status who make posts that are 100% factually incorrect. Of course I won't name names, but there are some folks here who have over 10k posts and will come into a discussion and make a statement as if it's complete fact and I just know it's wrong. I need a way to thumbs down these people, and people need to be able to thumbs up the people who make genuinely useful contributions. I don't think "liking" individual posts does anything to fix that unless likes gets linked to some overall score but I think something along the lines of SlickDeals rep system could be very helpful here to distinguish those who just post endless junk.