View Poll Results: Q: What is your view on FlyerTalk implementing a "Helpful" button feature?
Support
433
59.72%
Oppose
275
37.93%
No opinion
17
2.34%
Voters: 725. You may not vote on this poll
Jan 12, 2015, 9:07 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
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Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Makes Flyertalk more modern; more like Facebook, LinkedIn, and other progressive internet bulletin boards
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people won’t take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes it easier for airlines/companies to find mistake fares/glitches/underground tricks
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
* Older posts will tend to have more likes/helpfuls on average than newer posts in the same thread, which can be misleading when the information is out-of-date. [added by MSPeconomist]
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
* Can users "opt out" and select to remove all trace of the system, as is currently possible with the ignore list and removing view of signatures?
(lower right wiki corner)Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Makes Flyertalk more modern; more like Facebook, LinkedIn, and other progressive internet bulletin boards
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people won’t take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes it easier for airlines/companies to find mistake fares/glitches/underground tricks
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
* Older posts will tend to have more likes/helpfuls on average than newer posts in the same thread, which can be misleading when the information is out-of-date. [added by MSPeconomist]
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
* Can users "opt out" and select to remove all trace of the system, as is currently possible with the ignore list and removing view of signatures?
"Like" Button?
Dec 17, 2014, 9:38 am
#241
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,624
So what happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
There is room for mischievous and misleading behavior if the "likes" don't disappear upon a post being edited for content.
There is room for mischievous and misleading behavior if the "likes" don't disappear upon a post being edited for content.
As I wrote earlier, the Internet is full of beneficial features which are susceptible to abuse but which are not routinely abused: eBay, craigslist, Uber, and so on. FlyerTalk members are more mature than typical Internet users, so it makes sense to expect proper behavior.
Dec 17, 2014, 9:45 am
#242
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Either at the shooting range or anywhere good beer can be found...
Posts: 51,052
I don't think software can prevent all possible gaming. I expect any trial to demonstrate that FlyerTalk members are a cut above and therefore will not play every game they can think of to abuse reader feedback.
As I wrote earlier, the Internet is full of beneficial features which are susceptible to abuse but which are not routinely abused: eBay, craigslist, Uber, and so on. FlyerTalk members are more mature than typical Internet users, so it makes sense to expect proper behavior.
As I wrote earlier, the Internet is full of beneficial features which are susceptible to abuse but which are not routinely abused: eBay, craigslist, Uber, and so on. FlyerTalk members are more mature than typical Internet users, so it makes sense to expect proper behavior.
Dec 17, 2014, 10:18 am
#243
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
I don't think software can prevent all possible gaming. I expect any trial to demonstrate that FlyerTalk members are a cut above and therefore will not play every game they can think of to abuse reader feedback.
As I wrote earlier, the Internet is full of beneficial features which are susceptible to abuse but which are not routinely abused: eBay, craigslist, Uber, and so on. FlyerTalk members are more mature than typical Internet users, so it makes sense to expect proper behavior.
As I wrote earlier, the Internet is full of beneficial features which are susceptible to abuse but which are not routinely abused: eBay, craigslist, Uber, and so on. FlyerTalk members are more mature than typical Internet users, so it makes sense to expect proper behavior.
The gaming behavior that goes on (or does not go on) in trial periods may be different than the gaming behavior that goes on later -- different in nature and quantity. And then you'll say the mods can deal with it or rules can be changed?
Last edited by GUWonder; Dec 17, 2014 at 10:24 am
Dec 17, 2014, 10:37 am
#244
Join Date: Feb 2004
Programs: AA 'kettle', Marriott Gold, ICH Gld, Hertz 5*
Posts: 5,258
So what happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
There is room for mischievous and misleading behavior if the "likes" don't disappear upon a post being edited for content.
There is room for mischievous and misleading behavior if the "likes" don't disappear upon a post being edited for content.
1. On our forum, once a response to a posting has been placed, editing of any prior posting is disallowed, except by a moderator or administrator. That's very different from FlyerTalk. Even if a post doesn't follow, an existing post can only be user-edited for about 30 minutes and then it's essentially cast in stone. Any edits by moderation appear as notated at the bottom of the post similar to FT.
2. A member's 'like totals', both received and given, are displayed in their public profile and, when clicked on, a list of the precise postings they have been liked for or liked is returned and any member can peruse those postings. Experience varies but like totals can be or become a measure of social 'popularity' and the basis for political activities.
Dec 17, 2014, 10:38 am
#245
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Either at the shooting range or anywhere good beer can be found...
Posts: 51,052
The previous rating system that FT put up and then pulled -- because it was "abused" even on FTer birthday posts -- brings into doubt the assertion that the FT point game players won't play games to score points for or against individuals even when there is no post content to criticize unless the point is to criticize the individual or appear to be a good or bad "gang" member.
The gaming behavior that goes on (or does not go on) in trial periods may be different than the gaming behavior that goes on later -- different in nature and quantity. And then you'll say the mods can deal with it or rules can be changed?
The gaming behavior that goes on (or does not go on) in trial periods may be different than the gaming behavior that goes on later -- different in nature and quantity. And then you'll say the mods can deal with it or rules can be changed?
Dec 17, 2014, 10:41 am
#246
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,413
I don't think so because it requires knowledge of "intent." Some IA based algorithms could "learn" to distinguish some of it, but my JerK/HerO example even involves interchanging letters that are located nearby on the QWERTY keyboard, so they could easily be innocent typos.
Dec 17, 2014, 10:59 am
#247
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,624
2. A member's 'like totals', both received and given, are displayed in their public profile and, when clicked on, a list of the precise postings they have been liked for or liked is returned and any member can peruse those postings. Experience varies but like totals can be or become a measure of social 'popularity' and the basis for political activities.
Dec 17, 2014, 11:17 am
#248
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Either at the shooting range or anywhere good beer can be found...
Posts: 51,052
I don't think so because it requires knowledge of "intent." Some IA based algorithms could "learn" to distinguish some of it, but my JerK/HerO example even involves interchanging letters that are located nearby on the QWERTY keyboard, so they could easily be innocent typos.
Dec 17, 2014, 11:20 am
#249
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Either at the shooting range or anywhere good beer can be found...
Posts: 51,052
Has it been determined if IB's current feature that is active for moderators shows a list of the precise postings they have been liked for or liked is returned?
Dec 17, 2014, 1:05 pm
#250
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Dec 17, 2014, 1:05 pm
#251
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,624
However this issue turns out I want to say how grateful I am that we have been able to discuss it so thoroughly and uncover quite a few questions that we otherwise would have overlooked. To everyone who posted here: a big ^
Dec 17, 2014, 1:07 pm
#252
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,624
Dec 17, 2014, 1:13 pm
#253
Moderator: Hilton Honors forums
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Marietta, Georgia, United States
Posts: 24,997
Dec 17, 2014, 2:00 pm
#254
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: LAX
Programs: UA, Bonvoy, Amex Plat
Posts: 1,582
option. Simple "like" or ^, no more no less, with whatever usage features, restrictions and terms of usage the TB decides to implement for it. Some terrific points have been raised in this thread, though. Color me impressed by the consideration and high level of discourse that this topic has been afforded. ^
Dec 18, 2014, 9:19 am
#255
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
TalkBoard has requested a thirty day poll, and as Internet Brands prefers "Helpful" to "Like", that is the term used in the poll. The poll is one single choice vote per member; votes are secret.
JDiver, for the TalkBoard moderation team
JDiver, for the TalkBoard moderation team