MSPeconomist

There was an instance in the past where a TB member expressed frustration with the way TB operates, IIRC about two and a half years ago. Personally, I wish the person had resigned at the time, but AFAIK no one suggested this (uness it was done by PM sent by others) and there certainly was no suggestion in public from TB colleagues that the person should resign.

I find this discussion to be inappropriate. If someone has been elected and has not done anything that would be considered cause for removal according to TB rules, it's unseemly to urge them to resign, especially multiple times and publicly.

There's nothing wrong with expressing an opinion.

dchristiva

Would you kindly elaborate on how voting on a matter that's already been decided and announced helps the general membership?

I'm simply seeking alignment between the voting period and when TB announces the outcome of issues. But I'm not wasting my own time to vote "just for the sake of voting" when a public announcment has been made that something passed or failed.

Believe me, I WANT to vote. But if something's decided, let's all move on.

I find it sad that TB does not want to fix this flaw.

Canarsie

Wrong.

Any member of FlyerTalk with any access to any poll posted in any public discussion on FlyerTalk has the ability to see how many votes were cast — as well as split amongst the choices of the poll — from the time the very first vote is cast.

nsx

This is not helpful.

No, you can see the results, and who voted how, at any time. I disagree that TB voters should be blinded to other votes. AFAIK, no legislative body in the world works that way.

dchristiva

That REALLY makes no sense. Votes should be cast independently. Voters shouldn't know how other TB members voted until AFTER he/she casts his/her ballot.

Again, I see more and more rationale for totally public, real time voting.

dchristiva

When I cast my ballot for public office, I don't know how YOU voted.

When I cast my ballot for board members of a public company, I don't know how anyone else voted.

WHY on earth should I be able to know how the rest of TB voted on a matter BEFORE I cast my ballot?

Canarsie

I personally have no problem whatsoever with casting my vote in public for all members of FlyerTalk to see.

dchristiva

Good. I have said the same thing. So, shockingly, we agree on something. I wonder if 4 more TB members would agree.

nsx

This is a difference between voting to elect representatives and voting as a representative.

SkiAdcock

As has been explained to you in both the private & the public TB forums, polls are either public or private. That's due to VBulletin software upon which FT is built. There is no partial private/partial public poll.

What is this incentive to go w/ the crowd of which you speak? I've not been offered any free Starbucks, upgrades, bonus points, quid pro quos on votes. Darn it - what am I missing?!

It's your opinion that TB members go w/ the flow. That it's your opinion doesn't make it reality.

When I voted on the LAN forum 2 TB members had voted before me & I knew who they were. Knowing that didn't cause me to vote yes (the arguments put forth by EastBay1K, JohnnyColombia & Prospero did), just as when I've voted No on a motion that I knew was going to pass (other motions) didn't cause me to suddenly switch my vote to a yes vote. I voted no based on discussions in the private & private forums. I didn't consider my vote to be meaningless, even if it wasn't going to change the outcome.

Read this thread up until the time it was bumped to understand why posting a motion will pass/fail helps FTers. The decision 4+ years ago, as well as last year's decision to implement the changes once something has passed, addressed concerns by both FTers & TB members & solved the problem that necessitated such changes.

Considering it a flaw is your opinion, not necessarily one shared by your fellow TB members nor by FTers.

Cheers.

Canarsie

Your use of the word shockingly was completely unnecessary.Based on my experience as a member of the board of directors of various organizations over the years, dchristiva is correct that members of the board of directors do not know the outcome of a vote before voting by all members has been completed; and only then are the results officially announced to the entire board.

jackal

Whether you think it makes sense or not, it is a) how it has always been and b) how the forum software works, and there's no way to change it.

Any changes you want to propose to the voting process need to be technically feasible within the framework of the software that runs our forum.

Real-time voting in the public forum isn't feasible because there is no way in the forum software to limit it so that only the nine TalkBoard members can vote. We'd end up with members of the public voting in all of the official vote polls.

(It may work to give TalkBoard members the ability to post in the Town Hall Decisions forum and leave it read-only for all other FlyerTalkers and to conduct the votes there, but we'd either need to test it or ask IB if that would work if we wanted to implement something like that.)

Canarsie

If the idea of members of TalkBoard voting publicly came to fruition, it would probably require little more than Carol “flipping a switch” to allow temporary access solely to members of TalkBoard — similarly to the temporary forums which appear during the election process of TalkBoard members by members of FlyerTalk.

I do not believe that Internet Brands would need to be involved.

MSPeconomist

AFAIK when there are roll call votes (rather than oral aye and nay) in the U S Congress and most state legislatures, people voting later in the alphabet know the current vote talley before they case their votes and the same with the electronic votes where members have a set amount of time to vote, but the votes are displayed as/before individuals vote. It would be the same with oral votes on school boards, etc., although obviously people voting first have much less information than those who vote last according to the district represented, the alphabet, their length of time served, or where they're sitting.

For the votes in which I participate due to professional duties, I've seen shows of hands and well as secret paper ballots and mail in (or faxed) paper (usually but not always secret) ballots (now moving to email), although often the decision is really first reached by consensus with sometimes a formal vote also being required.

Canarsie

The boards of directors on which I have served typically used secret ballots; but I believe that you are correct.