could someone call the ASPCA... there's a dead horse being beaten...

I have been called "kiddo" many times by my pet dead horse.

My pet horse died after I called him "kiddo"

A cautionary tale for Markie and others. Sometime around the mid-1980s, Howard Cosell (a pretty famous white sports announcer in the U.S.) received a lot of grief for saying something like "look at that little monkey run" in reference to a black football player. The politically correct piled on Cosell even though he had a good record on civil rights. I don't remember the exact details but I believe that incident helped contribute to Cosell's departure from network television. A recent HBO documentary on Cosell interviewed one of his family members describing how he frequently used to refer to his grandkids as "little monkeys" as they scampered around. Most telling, however, was a tape of a college football game HBO showed in which Cosell referred to Mike Adamle (later of American Gladiators commentating fame) as a "little monkey." Adamle, of course, is white. This suggests we should be cautious about getting out the lynch mob over use of any particular word or term especially when, as in the case of Cosell, there was considerable evidence that he was far from the racist he was made out to be.

Now, I clearly have too much time on my hands, but a not so quick search on the Community forum reveals the threads below where the term "kiddo" is used by Essxjay and others. The usage there does not appear either paternalistic or demeaning. Moreover, while I've never met Essxjay (or anyone else on this board), her posts (unlike some of those by others in this thread) have never struck me as unfriendly or antagonistic. I'm just tired of the vitriol directed at the moderators at a personal level by some of those who don’t like the new policies. I’m all for a vigorous debate (I approve of the moderators but don't particularly like the multiple boards) but some people are taking things way too personally and are being a little immoderate.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/000437.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/000649.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/000900.html

MagMile: Amen, Brother, Amen!

Nice!!

I had not previously explained why I was upset by the tone of some of the moderator posts. Hence the longer than normal post for me.

I don't think that there was any nastyness in my post - I wanted to explain why I personally - was upset by the use of the 'kiddo' word.

As far as being given cautionary tales - please understand that I haven't suggested we remove moderators - I have just pointed out that they have to be doubly careful about language in the light of their new positions of power and authority.

Magmile - so your search semes to show this enormous total of THREE (count em) times in the cobwebby past when the word "kiddo" was used on FT.

They were used WAAAY before Moderators, hence Markie's point it seems.

Your three examples showed use by:

essexjay
Dr. PhP
onefreeman

Hmmm. Wonder which one was the fictional Dr. Php then?

Whatever....

Markie, I did not mean to suggest you yourself had been overly hostile, just that some people had. I did mean to suggest you might consider not being so quick to take personal offense at the use of a word such as "kiddo."

goldelite, I'm just too floored by your ozlogic to respond.

I thought the UBB software was supposed to censor inappropriate language?!? Shouldn't that have been o*logic?

Have a great and PEACEFUL weekend everyone! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Boy, it seems that some of you have found a convenient way to entertain yourself, my only concern is that it is at the expense of other members such as yourself. I think it appropriate that a topic like this exists if members want to continue to post to it, however, I think I have a responsibility to take a few names and personally have a chat with some of you. I don't consider 'moderator bashing' a sport to be consider for the next Olympics, though it seems we have a training facility for such. So please, continue your discussion here and contribute what you feel is your best personal observation and opinion of the situation, and like all things in life, be responsible for what you post.

In the meanwhile, we will compare some suggestions from you with the newly elected TalkBoard and move on with the next level of moderators for FlyerTalk, with whatever level of moderating board members are comfortable with.

I can tell you that since this thread has gotten so much attention, that volunteers to the effort have dried up. My guess is that no one now wants a volunteer role with FlyerTalk where every single contribution they might make becomes easy fodder for a new thread. Hopefully there will be some suggestions hereafter on how we now make this work, remembering that it can never be a personal issue.

Thoughts anyone?

Randy,

Thanks for visiting/commenting.

While there's been some expression of frustration with some of the moderators' practices, I think most people are not really trying to personally confront/attack any of the moderators individually versus expressing some dissatisfaction with the impact of the recent policies as they have been interpreted and implemented.

BTW, who are the members of this TalkBoard?

NL


[This message has been edited by nologic (edited 09-08-2001).]

Randy,

Thanks for commenting on this issue that a few people have got all wound up over.

I am very disappointed that applications for moderator have dried up.

nologic, I disagree. I do feel that some were personally attacking the moderators. Go back through this stupidly long thread and see what I mean.

Regards,

Dorian

[This message has been edited by Dorian (edited 09-10-2001).]

Randy:

In fact before I posted anything here I emailed you personally and asked if you thought the tone of the post was appropriate. So I for one, prefer to raise these issues outside of the light of public boards.

Randy
Thanks for your response. As thr originator of this "STUPID" thread (As commented by an obnoxious person) I have made my views very clear and would like to make it crystal clear now. It is superfluous to mention that there are other bulletin boards and other moderators we encounter every day in our web surfing
1. My original objection was moving my thread elsewhere when an identical thread was allowed to continue
2. I have and will strongly object to moderators using words or expressing a sentiment"If you dont like it Get out"
3. Moderators have to refrain from using language that is not palatable to other users of the board such as "Kiddo"
4. Moderators should not threaten to banish established FTers
I do enjoy my visits to FT and it is my most visited site! If we cannot have MODERATE moderators in action, language and philosophy, I am afraid the visitors may move to better options and that will make Flyertalk a second rate BB.
All of us truly appreciate your input and contributions to the Frequent Flier community and look forward to a mutually satisfactory resolution to this problem.

[This message has been edited by drbala (edited 09-10-2001).]

Obnoxious? Geez.

----

Nah! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

We are ALL somewhat opinionated, IMHO and who among us would not do well to be just a bit more introspective and kind?

Let's ALL please try to be more thoughtful and also be a bit more sensitive to what others may think of what we post, no? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

And just maybe, MAYBE, we can now move ahead beyond this too, okay? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

PLEASE! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

5. FTers should not threaten moderators or use language or express sentiments they might find offensive.

6. We should all face the fact that this thread is very long and that maybe we should let this rest and see how everything is going to look on FlyerTalk during the next couple of months.

Based on recent events, it's hard to get worked up about all this...and appreciate the community and commraderie of FT.

---

Indeed! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I hope that this sense of "community and commraderie of FT" will again rapidly prevail over the rather "nasty" comments posted recently in some threads.

IMHO, an accelerated implementation of moderators in order to quell such unfortunate aspersions before they implode/explode among us with far greater damage will prove to be useful! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

While I'm reluctant to encourage further moderation, what we've proved this week is that not everyone on this board is mature enough to govern their own behaviour. Moderation therefore becomes the lesser evil for the greater good.

And, in case I hadn't said it before, a big thanks to all the moderators who donate their time so generously. It's a thankless task, but we really do appreciate it when things really get out of hand, as they have recently.

Let's all play nicely, shall we? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif



------------------
Please visit The Mileage Runner's Toolkit and Unofficial United Airlines Guide

---

So how does it look now everyone? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Another 6 months has passed, eh? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

So what have we all learned here? Anything? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

FWIW, I also noted some useful tips for what a good moderator does, among other things, in another old thread:

There seems to be some misunderstanding about what moderators do. They do not:


-alter posts

-allow flame wars to spread

-interject his or her own opinions

-allow personal bias of community members to get in the way of his or her moderation duties

A good moderator is expected to remain impartial and should pretty much sit back unless or until a thread turns ugly or otherwise runs contrary to the stated guidelines (which need to be made clear in advance) of the forum.

Check out the Plane Business boards for an example of a successfully moderated board.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum97/HTML/000232.html

Sounds good, eh? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif



[This message has been edited by doc (edited 07-25-2002).]

Doc -- That's an exceptionally poor example! PlaneBusiness boards had to close down because of the continuing flame wars, despite the moderation...

---

Yes, as you know, I know! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Alas, you have surely understood my point then! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

ALso, please kindly note, if you have not already done so, that the content I'd referenced above was not a quote of mine!

Let all please enjoy what we have here on FT, and kindly focus on what's important, miles, points, and travel.

Have a wonderful weekend all! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Doc, please explain to all of us how this thread:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/007833.html

deals with miles, points or travel? Frankly, it was sick of you to drag that thread back so that you could add a useless link to a new book. Does it occur to you that 9/11 is UPSETTING to most people and that they do not want to be reminded over and over?

I think it is time that the moderators take a long hard look at your posts and consider deleting your account. Just MHO...

Gamble,

The subject of Doc's postings have been brought up on a regular basis. Please recognize that he has way more fans than detractors. Regardless, management of FT has no issues with his posts, and if they did, they would take it up direct with him rather than airing it out in public.

My suggestion is if you have issues about his activities, pen an email to Randy Petersen.



------------------
Craig6z
Buzz & United Moderator
[email protected]

Understood. I can't believe this is what FT management wants on the board, but I realize I can either accept it or leave. Thanks for the response.

---

Needless to say, while I respect your right to an opinion as well as to express it, we have been through this before, since February, when you seemingly signed on to FT and posted in order to assail me, and to put it simply, after being hounded for six months, we just do not agree, sadly.

Notably, of eight threads in the UNITED forum in which you posted, five bear only nasty criticisms directed at me. In one, you'll no doubt recall the rather uncharitabe remark to me: "You are a real ...et to the board!" http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum.../008976-2.html


In the "BUZZ" threads, literally all your posts are complaints about me! Same story in nearly all the other threads also, no?

Do you really think that is what Randy and the FT Managemant actually wants? C'mon! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

You have posted repeated scathing complaints over and over again, you have emailed Randy & Co, and me, as well. Yet, despite previously posting that you understand, you persist! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Nontheless, given your rather considerable interest in the FT Boards, and the quality herein, I wonder whether you have possibly considered running as a future memebr of the Talkboard. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif


Specifically, regarding your post

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/007833.html

---

FWIW, if you think that you were somehow more hurt by the tragic events of last 9/11 than I was, then all I can say is that you are, little doubt, very sadly mistaken! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

And moreover, if you do not want to be reminded of it, may I politely suggest that you might try life on an alternate planet!


Again, regarding the ongoing issue at hand, I'll not bother to post all the criticims and nasty remarks with all the links, yet kindly please recall from the beginning:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum.../004894-3.html


I hope you understand that all FT'ers have rights! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif


And in the middle:

FWIW, I have multiple advanced degrees! IMHO, it's not so simple! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif


Lastly:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum.../002801-4.html


A message that I missed? What was that?


http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/012285.html


Again, they ALL seemed to be a bit "snippy" to me, from the outset!

Please accept my humble apologies for being so upsetting to you, and to anyone else similarly afflicted as well!

As I'd noted previously, hard as I might try to please everyone, it just does not seem possible, eh? I'll naturally keep trying nonetheless!

Randy, once again has also commented, addressing a related issue:

"...I hope I can also make one thing clear, it is not posting to older threads that slows things down..."

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum73/HTML/000382.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum.../006901-2.html


Funny you say it is a joke as I too, have come to think of it as a kind of very unfunny joke myself!

Again, as hard as I might try to please everyone, it just doesn't seem possible.
Perhaps we can both/all continue to keep on trying our very best nonetheless?

Like Craig, I too had humbly suggested that you might email Randy himself! Wouldn't that have been a far better idea, in retrospect, to do initially, before you'd posted all these unfortunate personal attacks against me?

I've always attempted to do as I thought in the best interests of ALL FT'ers, not what's just in my particular interests, nor, for that matter, in anyone else's in particular.

FT is what we ALL collectively make it. Be part of the solution, or part of the problem. The choice is yours! Please feel free to edit your former posts as well.

Remember, I too am usually on a very slow connection!

Thanks! Have a great night all! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

-Mark

Wow.

Was all that really necessary doc?

FewMiles..

---

Rhetorical question I suppose? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

As you so well know, FewMiles, anything I do is not necessary, right! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Now your comment - that was necessary! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Have a great night all! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

-Mark

Sorry if you misunderstood my intent.

doc, all I'm doing is asking whether it was necessary for you to flame back. Given that you are impervious to criticism about your posting MO http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif, you don't need to listen to a word the other poster is saying. Just go on doing what you want to do. After all, it's not FlyerTalk that is hassling you about your posting style, just one of your detractors. You have a right to do as you wish and you should exercise that right. Who cares what others think? Just go on doing your own thing.

Shrug.

FewMiles..

If Doc has had a poster apparently stalking him for months I suspect Doc felt it WAS necessary? He clearly took a good deal of time to type the post, so just curious why anyone here would query if he felt it 'necessary'. And query him again when he answered you.

I found it interesting if sad that it is occurring. Indeed, a few of the words and phrases used by gamble0813 seemed VERY familiar to me now I read them all in one place. Very enlightening. So the long montage possibly served a useful purpose. I have passed on my thoughts to those who may be able to look into that.



------------------
~ Glen ~

---

What? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/confused.gif Are we reading the same material?

Where you apparently see a "flame back", I, frankly, do not! However, surely you will enlighten me, no? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Again, as noted many times previously, I did, and do, in fact, listen! Need I also necessarily agree as well? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Who doesn't care what others think? You? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Curiously, whenever I'm being "flamed", you have seemingly always negleted to post, eh? No outrage? No need to? Unless, of course you elect to join in on the beating! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Thank you kindly, as always, for your thoughtful post reaffirming my rights! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Have a great weekend all! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Exactly Doc, let's please all just get along and enjoy our miles, points and WEEKEND http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

it appears to me, that even such 'innocent' threads need moderators and moderation!

Just a slightly off-topic reminder:

We'd really appreciate it if instead of bringing back old posts in this forum, if you'd create a new one and just reference the old link. This will save us reading through 4 pages before we realize the content is months old... a time-consuming task.

Thanks all!

--Lisa