I am definitely for moderators. I got in on the tail end of some pretty nasty stuff, but it worked out. I look to the moderators to 1) keep a Forum/Thread on track, regardless of the "old" or "new" FT (actually the "new" FT is just an evolution, as far as I can tell); 2) keep negative and inflammatory posts in check.

I appreciate Moderator1 and Moderator2 identifying themselves. At least I know how to distinguish between their posts as Moderators and FTers, and I feel they have remained impartial.

As for essxjay, I can not distinguish her roles. There is a mix of "old FTer" and "Moderator" that I find hard to understand (and I'm a very understanding person!).

Some good points, and glad I was not the only one to dislike dismissive and demeaning terms like "kiddo".

And Cactus Pete please do not overlook you were in the very midst of many of the wild threads, and as I recall a good number of users got time outs, including some you sided strongly with, so fault and blame clearly lay in many places. Those days are past, and Moderators are here. I think there is a feeling from the few posts before this that those who moderate must be even-handed and transparent and VERY careful with their wording. A tough call, but they all volunteer and were not forced to take on the job, and therefore accepted those responsibilities with eyes wide open.

I guess the big difference at this point is between those that feel moderators are needed to keep things on track, at the expense of more/better information, and those that think moderators should be reserved to filtering offensive posts (all of which probably starts a whole other debate on the definition of "offensive"...but there's a smell test here).

[This message has been edited by nologic (edited 08-25-2001).]

Many different threads going on about moderators, but this one is the longest and the one I have previously contributed to.

My previous posts on this subject have expressed support for the moderators and their efforts. I have also expressed my concern that some posts on this topic have lacked a bit of respect (mostly FTers posting about moderators; one time a moderator posting about a FTer).

Moving on, now. I would like to know exactly what the scope of the moderators' roles are? More precisely, moderators have been assigned certain forums and the forums for which they are responsible are posted on the boards. Do moderators then see their responsibilty carrying over to other boards?

I ask this question because over the weekend I received two e-mails from moderators regarding a post I made to the United forum.

The first e-mail was from a United moderator who politely explained the problem with my post and asked me to edit it, which I did.

The second e-mail was from a non-United moderator and stated very cursorily that my post was prohibited by the FT Terms of Service and to please edit it. This e-mail was signed "FT Moderator".

Again, my question is: what exactly is the "official" role of each FT moderator and what, if any, responsibilty do they have to moderate forums to which they are not assigned?

I would appreciate any feedback. Thanks.

Blair -

Perhaps the most useful aspect of having "moderators" on FT is that it gives folks like "FT Moderator" an outlet they probably need.

If they weren't "moderating" at you, they'd probably be scolding you for not having your seat back in the full upright position . . . (or, worse yet, not having your underwear and socks properly sorted, folded and put away in the correct drawer).

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Currently there are only three moderators on FlyerTalk; Moderator2 (Craig6z), essxjay, and myself Moderator1 (burkey). If you received email's asking you to edit your thread, and they were from anyone other then any of the three of us, please send it to which ever one of us is responsible for that forum so we can track down the party sending it to you.

From time to time, if one of us is away, another may step in to assist, but in general we only operate in the forms as where we are listed as moderators on the main FlyerTalk Miles forum summary page.



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burkey
FlyerTalk Miles Moderator
MilesBuzz
American Airlines
[email protected]
------------------------
Please remember the format of FlyerTalk.com when making posts:
FlyerTalk Miles
Stick with FlyerTalk Miles for all your miles and points information.
FlyerTalk Travel
FlyerTalk Travel is the place to bring up all of your general travel questions and comments.
FlyerTalk Dining
Check out FlyerTalk Dining to learn where the food's good, where it's bad, and how to get there.
FlyerTalk Airports
Visit FlyerTalk Airports to discuss everything from parking, to the best airport restaurants and shops.

Thanks, Moderator1, for your response. I appreciate the explanation. I understand the need for moderators to help one another out from time to time.

As stated in my previous post, the first e-mail was from Moderator2, the UA moderator. The second e-mail was signed essxjay FT Moderator, so it was from one of you three.

I guess that's what confused me: I thought the first e-mail was appropriate and I edited my post. I wasn't sure why the second e-mail was necessary.

Thanks again for your response.

This all seems VERY confused - Is this our new 'lords and masters' (Moderators) now sending contradictory e-mails?

Must have been a pretty bad post to merit two moderator edicts.

Actually, nologic the above mentioned post was a complete cut and paste of a copyright article, which as you know, is a violation of the TOS we all agreed to when we signed up here. That's why I notified the poster.

No, Markie, there was was no cross-purpose in the emails to blairvanhorn. As burkey stated when one of us is away another moderator might step in.

Aah, such a logical explanation. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Such a LOGICAL explanation ??????

Well last time I heard there were three (3) Moderators total. (Wait til we have a few dozen!) There is total inconsistency in their methods and styles kiddo. (oops - please edit that one out - only moderators can use those terms. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif )

One of the three (3) Moderators seems today to contradict the comments above. Or more precisely, seems content to moderate the Forum he is assigned to but others seem to think and act differently based on the above example.

Moderator #2 said today:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum97/HTML/000526.html

Seemed logical at the time...The copyright thing seemed to make sense as a problem, althought the process they used may have been a little unusual.

I have less of a problem with how the moderators are acting (with the exception of the "kiddo" comment, which I suspect she would take back now that she sees the reaction), than with many of the policies themselves which they are enforcing -- essentially as directed.

There are bound to be inconsistencies in the implementation of these policies because the moderators are new to this and moderating is not their full time job...also, there is a natural evolution/learning curve here.

But, all these deletions and locked threads make this whole place seem and feel so serious and heavy-handed. Just look at all the locked threads in MilesBuzz -- who wants to participate in a volunteer, interactive web community that is so formal and intense about such "small" matters?

Shouldn't we be as inviting and as inclusive as possible? Isn't that the key spirit here, not regulatory aggressiveness and exclusion? For those that think I am going too far, this is indeed what it feels like to those of us who have had threads locked and moved, and been the subject of harsh comments. I know the enforcement approach is well intended, but it comes off as very aggressive and anti-participatory.

Is this really consistent with most people's expectations for this site? I can only image the reaction of new people who come to the site and see all these closed threads and must say to themselves: "give me a break?"

Of course, this extensive debate itself, which I have done plenty to foster, borders on going too far and being too serious...

[This message has been edited by nologic (edited 08-30-2001).]

"he" is a she... and she's a good kid.

Thanks, geo1004. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

I am not in the least offended by being called 'kid.' It's just an expression.

There has been much comment on my use of the term 'kiddo.' Let me explain now just to put the matter to rest.

The use of the term 'kiddo' is an affectionate one in my family; not at all considered derogatory. It's an Americanism that we picked up. To translate, it might also sound like "hey, pal, I don't happen to agree with you and here's why ... "

And that's exactly how I used the term. Keep in mind that my context for language usage is different than for many of you. I grew up in a German/French/English household, and that the language I grew up around is much more 'harsh' sounding that in other native U.S.-homes.

I now realize that non U.S.-ers may consider use of the term 'kiddo' as a perverbial pat on the head. Please know that that was not my meaning.

Frankly, I fail to see how 'kiddo' is so offensive vis-a-viz terms such as "a$$hole,' 'sh*thead,' and on and on and on.

I don't believe the other Moderators have used the latter two terms or variants.

Actually, I kinda wish essxjay would call me kiddo! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Dorian

goldelite,

Agreed: the other moderators _have not_ used the other terms or variants you refer to.

But you are attempting to confuse the context of the discussion - a classic logical fallacy.

What I am suggesting is that others in this thread take exceptional offense to my syntax, but I submit that it should not be taken as such because it's a North Americanism that's fairly benign.

That's all I'm saying.

Sorry Essexjay about calling you a he; I've edited my post to make you a she. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

As for kiddo, it can be a cute expression, or an aggressive one, and just underscores how misunderstood posts in this kind of forum can be. I am sure you were well meaning.

Thanks for your post, nologic. I appreciated it.

And don't worry about the gender confusion. It has come up before in other threads, and really doesn't bug me a bit. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Cheers!

BTW, how come the thread "New FTalk Luggage Tags" has not been closed? From the current strict application of the rules (imho - of course I am most likely wrong) it seems to me that it doesnt belong in milesbuzz, and it has been there for a very long time. Is there some bias because of the subject?

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The trouble with resisting temptation is..... that you may not get another chance.

Anagnorisis. I agree. An ever weirder one to leave untouched in The Buzz is this one:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/005095.html

Which has ZIPPO to do with MileBuzz, but has dozens of posts, and The Magic Moderators have closed down all kinds of partly revelant thread around it, but not that one. It should not even go into Hilton, but on the Travel boards, and be therefore lost forever in Siberia. There are annoying inconsistencies on how these Moderators pick their marks, and it is getting irritating is there is no policy WHATEVER lately.

It seems that the coffee shop below my office has been closed. You guys...do you think the moderators moved it???!!! I mean...like...the way you guys talk I think it is totally possible!!!!

Man, now I'm mad!!

Dorian

OOOOOOO I am scared

Dorian: Not that I want to encourage you, but ROFLMAO! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by SuperSlug (edited 09-03-2001).]

Get this!!!!!

I walked by the closed coffee shop for lunch and there is now a sign on the door that says:

"This coffee shop is incorrectly located for Vancouver, coffee can be found and consumed in Gastown at: 351 Water St."

Coffee Shop Moderator
[email protected]


This totally sux! I'm going to have to walk one block over now! No one ever goes one block over...it is dead over there!

I mean, who in the h*ll gave anyone the right to expand this city any way?! This reminds me a lot of Hitler's policies regarding expansion of urban centers.

I'm thinkin' of boycotting cities now.

Dorian

Boycott coffee and all your problems are solved.

I am a bit confused now. There is a post is MILESbuzz that is about Amex points being converted to miles in an airline program. It has been closed and moved to the Amex forum.

It IS about miles. No offense but it now appears that the moderators are being subjective as to how "miles specific" a post is and if it is not a "pure miles" post, canning it and moving it to another forum.

Just my .02 worth.

TW

In the specific instance you mention, I felt the poster would receive better and quicker information from those who are experts in that program. My response:

Subjective decision? Yes.

Correct decision? In my opinion. But then again, that is subjective http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif



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Craig6z
Buzz & United Moderator
[email protected]

Fine. I agree that things will somehow be subjective.

Now, would you be so kind as to explain what is the subjective view makes the posting on the Flyertalk tags remain. I can only think of the subjectivity coming from the very specific interest of some at Flyertalk: If moved to Siberia, many may not read the post and consequently not buy the tags.

I would ask you to admit that the subjetive criteria used although subjective, it is not consistent, but capricious.

I posted 17 times in the month prior to August 12th, and only once since then. I now decided not to post in milesbuzz anymore -though I still check the board, but mostly for the fun of checking what is closed and what is not.

Again, I have no problem with having some kind of policy that deals with misplaced posts, but what got me annoyed was the arrogant, cocky, pedantic and intimidating attitude shown in replies from the moderators.


------------------
The trouble with resisting temptation is..... that you may not get another chance.

The Buzz looks like a dogs breakfast this week. What are being closed down and moved are often vaguely ON topic, like Miles realted threads about Air Vietnam and the above mentioned Amex one. However a dozen threads with no connection whatever to "Miles" are still happily there - about car rentals, car insurance, $0 Hilton nights, Afghan Talibans, Star Alliance Gold ratings, Weather forecasts, Dining programs, and of course those flouro luggage tags.

If that Buzz Forum has TWO (2) erstwhile Moderators and yet consistently exhibits more off-topic posts than any other Forum, including most which of course have NO moderators, I rest my case on this thread title "DO WE NEED MODERATORS"? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by goldelite (edited 09-04-2001).]

Any of you people every consider that the moderators are volunteers?! Every consider it was a long weekend.

The reason The Buzz has the most off topic posts is twofold. It is the topmost forum for lazy a*ses and it is the most general outside of Omni.

You ingrates make me feel sick.

Dorian

Dorian. as suggested above, maybe that lack of caffeine is the cause of your sickness? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

If there had been NO locking/moving of The Buzz threads due to a holiday your now very tired old argument holds perhaps a SMIDGEON of logic. Alas there were selective and rather inappropriate lockdowns in the last day, whilst cheerfully ingnoring all that other rubbish, so you are just blowin' in the wind. All except you seem to realise that.

A volunteer firefighter is expected to put out fires, nip them in the bud, or he simply does not volunteeer in the first place.

I know a volunteer firefighter who snapped and started burning down houses of those he felt didn't appreciate him...

Dorian

I strongly second it and three cheers for your frank opinion. Dorian You need caffeine AND Prozac http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

It seems Dorian could use a better class of acquaintance, too.

Ya, I am terrible.

Dorian

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

C'mon everyone, could ya' PLEASE lighten up a bit? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

And maybe also cheer up a bit too! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Have a great night all. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I have to differ on your interpretation Essxjay of what a phrase like 'kiddo' means - americanism or not.

I do not recall a single occasion in which an American friend, colleage, customer or supplier, reservations agent, check-in clerk, ever called me 'kiddo'. Hence I think it is not normal parlance.

Kiddo - IMHO - is a form of paternalism - demeaning a person by referring to them like a child has to do with statements of power, issues of control and relationships based on weaker/stronger.

In what used to be a community - we now seem to have our first police. That I think is unfortunate.