Sabai

Everyone's nighmare

jalves

I'll be interested to see what they do for those of us who have status in both programs. I'm gold on both MR and SPG.

tjk1976

I would imagine it would be safe to assume that you will remain gold in the new program. I wouldn't hold out much hope that they will combine statuses (as in, gold + gold = platinum).

bhrubin

From blogger One Mile at a Time:

http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.c...369.1470893418

It seems that Marriott's app update hints at possible linking of your SPG and Marriott Rewards accounts....while also suggesting a temporary scenario where all 3 programs may coexist:

My guess is that the blogger is right--this is just a mechanism to begin merging the informational databases for the 3 rewards programs. I still doubt that the 3 programs will coexist by 2018, when the expected merged program incorporates Marriott and SPG. My guess is that the merged program will incorporate all three programs, finally ending the preposterous separation for Ritz Carlton.

Ritz Carlton wanted and Marriott created the separation due to the incorrect assumption that any marriage of the two would harm the RC reputation or quality. The fact that St Regis has grown so quickly and improved its reputation while a part of SPG clearly has demonstrated that to be a bad assumption. In fact, one of the reasons Starwood has such loyal customers is because of the simplicity of the program....and because it offers aspirational properties as well as more reasonable properties in the same, easy to understand award chart. That has been just as true for St Regis as it has been for many of the top end Luxury Collection properties around the world...and has increased the value of the W chain as a result, as well.

supatight80

Perhaps the Ritz has been right all along...Maybe it's best to keep the programs separate so not to harm the reputation of Starwood.

Based on numerous reports here and on other websites, us Starwood Folks just can't imagine when the programs merge and...

sapguy

I would have to agree! ^

bhrubin

I am a very loyal SPG Ambassador Plat who will enjoy the stand-alone SPG program for as long as it lasts. But you're unaware of or ignoring the statements by Marriott's CEO and pretty much all hotel analysts if you think SPG is going to remain a stand-alone program within Marriott. That wouldn't be to Marriott's advantage at all and makes no sense.

Also, I'd already pointed out the obvious: that Ritz Carlton and Marriott both were wrong in assuming adding RC to MR would in any way harm RC. RC is as strong as ever...and most people don't even know it's part of Marriott even now. That isn't likely to change for the average consumer even if RC was brought to to the regular Marriott fold...as is evidenced by St Regis. StR is as strong as ever...and most people don't even know it's part of Starwood StR being a part of SPG hasn't harmed StR in the slightest--and most in the hotel industry realize it's helped grow the brand far beyond their wildest aspirations.

Marriott's CEO already has indicated that the programs will merge in 2018. Presumbaly, the announcement of what that new merged program will look like will arrive sometime in mid to late 2017...or even in 2018 if they get delayed.

This linking of programs is nothing but the expected forebear to what will eventually be a merged program.

tjk1976

Very true, except for SPG's awkward relationship with Caesars Palace. There is surprisingly very limited information about it available online. After multiple phone calls, I learned that SPG members have to call Ceasars reservations and verbally provide their SPG number at time of booking and there are no SPG elite benefits given on room reservations other than stay/nights credit up to 10/yr. That said, TotalRewards will provide SPG Plats with a card that gives VIP line benefits and a few other perks if you present an SPG Plat card at one of their casino kiosks. Ceasars really is an ugly duckling in SPG's otherwise simple rewards program. It will be interesting to see how (and if) Ceasars fits into the new Marriott Rewards/SPG program.

bhrubin

Yes, but Ceasars is not that different from Design Hotels. Those are major exceptions for unique independent type hotel properties, just as Hyatt has with M Life properties in Vegas. That isn't remotely comparable to the Marriott-Ritz Carlton issue. In fact, once Marriott and Starwood merge, the Caesars issue will be even less of an factor...since Marriott then will have the Westin, SLS, and W properties right near/along the Strip, along with the Las Vegas Marriott and Marriott's Grand Chateau in Vegas....and the JW Marriott outside of the Strip.

username

It seems to me they have to have the MR/SPG point valuation determined and announced before they can even do a reciprocal / co-existing arrangement as people might be cross-crediting and get really mad if conversion rates do not go their way?

ftrbt

To me it sounded closer to a CrossOver rewards kind of thing which are effectively bonus points for the other program in addition to what you normally earn. No decisions about conversion rates really need to be considered yet to achieve that.

It would be an effective way of saying "we know PREFERRED HOTEL is fully booked but consider OUR OTHER HOTEL instead of RANDOM BRAND".

Visconti

This is an insight I hadn't considered and is very helpful. From this perspective, I can see where an initial lower valuation exchange could potentially benefit the longer term efficacy of the rewards program.

d'Yquem

The insight also assumes there is a solid link between SPG conversion ratio and SPG property points redemptions.

What I suspect will happen is that SPG members will face a poor conversion ratio, and then to top it off, Marriott will then increase the number of points required for an ex-SPG property to be in line with Marriott properties.

I fear it's going to be one of those 'dropped soap' outcomes...

PHLGovFlyer

IMO that's a pretty good assumption.

If legacy SPG account balances convert at a high ratio but legacy SPG property points costs increase by a lower ratio it would make legacy SPG account holders happy, but the combined company would lose money. Maybe the combined company would do this as a one-time goodwill gesture to legacy SPG members but it would be very expensive (and the merger is supposed to be about cost reductions and "synergy").

If the legacy SPG account balances convert at a low ratio but legacy SPG property points costs increase by a higher ratio it would outrage legacy SPG account holders. Again the combined company would lose money as legacy SPG members would walk.

The solution that makes the most sense (to me anyway ) is to apply the same ratio to both the legacy SPG account balances AND the SPG property points costs. That way the purchasing power of the legacy SPG accounts at legacy SPG properties is unchanged.

The only question remaining is what should the ratio be? I think there's a good case that the ratio should be neither too high (which would make legacy SPG properties unaffordable with future points earnings) or too low (which would make the legacy SPG properties too cheap compared to future points earnings). That brings us right back to my predicted range of 2:1 to 3:1 (with an over/under of 2.5).

r415

+1. This is by far the most likely scenario. Marriott will claim it's not devaluing anything, but then there will be assignments of Marriott Rewards redemption values to Starwood properties that will require more MR points than simply taking the converted value of the old SPG point redemption cost. They may combine this with some new category/tier structure to confuse people and try to make them think they're getting some value. Marriott will highlight a few Four Points in obscure, unpopular locations that they gave low redemption values to show, "What a great value you can get for your points" and how nothing has been devalued.

While I agree that Marriott is unlikely to do this, this statement is not necessarily true. This option would essentially save Marriott money on redemptions of legacy MR points at ex-SPG properties. The data suggests that MR has a lot of people who earn points at their low-end properties but redeem them at the high-end properties, so this cost would be significant. Plus there are simply more MR points outstanding.

It's likely Marriott will outrage and lose quite a few legacy SPG members for any conversion ratio below 3:1.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure that they care.