UA-NYC

1. AA A319s have 8 F seats
2. Some alofts do actually have suites.
3. Not everyone goes on vacation at peak times (Xmas/NYE; August; etc.)

It sounds like IHG is a better program for you - that's great. For many of us SPG loyalists, IHG does absolutely nothing for us.

dingo

I honestly feel really stupid for just now realizing a few things. Honestly, just now getting the wordsmithing with the program:

"Upgrades are to best available room, including Standard Suites." Key word is "available". I'd always thought that meant that if several rooms were not occupied or assigned, then the best one would go to the Plat member at checkin. From a post a few posts up I now realize that really means that an upgrade will be extended IF there are several better rooms not occupied or assigned at checkin time and IF the hotel chooses to consider them to be available.

And SNA's double down on that apparently. Now you can confirm your upgrade 5 days out for a better room IF the hotel chooses to make those rooms available for upgrade.

I'm realizing that based on this statement: "No, that's not the way the program works. Not all suites are part of the Platinum upgrade pool, just as not all suites are part of the SNA pool."

I am also all for Starwood selling all the suites they can. But I'm not for deception. The wording should be something more like

"If you stay a bunch of nights with us we'll extend a special benefit to you and only those that stay the same requisite number of nights. At checkin, we may or may not upgrade you to a better room that we have available, including standard suites. And if you stay even more nights with us, we may or may not allow you to confirm upgrades to rooms we have available and we may or may not let you do that 5 days in advance of your arrival. Please do not look at what we're selling to the public via multiple websites; that will only frustrate you."

Yes I'm being snarky with that last bit, but I think it is pretty much what the last several posts are getting at isn't it? And in practice, it syncs with many people's experience.

I agree that we'll hear mostly about bad experiences here and that there are a lot of good positive experiences as well. However, we're three years into this benefit and the problems and transparency issues persist. At some point, suspicions that go unproved kind of having a way of becoming more than suspicions.

I know I'm a broken record, but for me the sole reason for elite status with Starwood has always been its properties in Western Europe, Italy in particular. We've seen some adds in Milan, but one huge departure in Rome (Eden) and like a second departure when the management agreement with the St. Regis in Rome lapses. I'm not well-versed with management agreements, but if the 'asset light' approach makes it more difficult to get hotels to follow the rules, I'm not a fan of it.

Cathay Boy

I've been told Starwoods hotels typically have a set of junior suites they use as PLAT upgrades, and once they are given out they will tell people "all out", of course all the real suites may still be open and non-occupied or haven't sell but they don't care.

RAPC

Just because someone told you that, it doesn't make it true.

forumpersona999

But in this case it is true.

"Select Standard Suites" are in the upgrade pool. Not "All standard suites."

Cathay Boy

Some people are just cheerleaders not interested to learn from others, but thanks for pointing that out.

(By the way the person that told me was a senior management I've befriended in one of the establishments, and he said this is pretty much standard Starwood-chain practice)

RAPC

There was no mention of select standard suites in the post I quoted, but a sweeping generalisation about junior suites and then people being told that no suites are available. It isn't the same as what you are saying at all.

Land-of-Miles

I have read too much here and have my own personal experiences of losing up to half my SNAs each year as I can't redeem them to think that all is well. I have experienced properties gaming the system and genuine lack of availability but sometimes have found they work OK.

I now tend to prioritise stays at IC's because I know what I will get, no ifs, buts or games. I can't quite decide what the purpose of SNA's is meant to be. Is it to encourage hitting the 50 night plus mark to qualify for SNA's or to encourage more stays once you hit the 50 mark. The latter seems not to be working so I assume it is the former.

The smart solution in any event is to game them back. I tend to book flexible rates (mainly corporate with on the day cancellation). If I book a SPG property and want to use SNAs then I often book an IHG or Hilton property on a similar flexible basis. If my SNA doesn't confirm I cancel the Starwood booking and take my other booking. It is foolish to try and play the SNA game with advance payment/no change rates.

RAPC

Just because people don't agree with you, that doesn't make them a cheerleader. Have some respect for others please, as you are very quick to throw that line out at people in threads and it is unnecessary IMO.

As for the opinion of the senior person you have befriended at a property, it is exactly that - an opinion. It may reflect the practice of that particular property, but my point was that it does not equate to the whole of SPG and on that basis, it doesn't make it true. For starters a lot of hotels do not even have junior suite categories...

As can be seen in this thread and other property based threads, some hotels go well above and beyond what is required to upgrade whilst others will indeed stick to the letter of the law, or appear to try to restrict upgrades. Going back fully on topic, with regards to SNAs, some people have had good success with them, others have not. The system is not perfect by any stretch and I think many of us would prefer to have confirmable upgrades instead of the SNA system as it stands. Based on how it currently works though, there are very different views about it based upon our own experiences, as well as the expectations of those trying to use the SNAs in the first place. Those travelling at peak times or to properties with a small pool of SNA upgradeable suites are more likely to be disappointed due to the chances of the upgrades clearing being lower. That doesn't make the whole system broken, but it isn't a system that rewards some travel patterns.

Flews

Why do you have to insult people just because they disagree with, or have a different experience than you?

Cheers,

Flews

The Ts&Cs clearly spell out the upgrade pool includes select standard suites.

Some select standard suites are junior suites, some are not. Several properties I frequent, and where I regularly get suite upgrades, don't even have junior suites. So whoever told you this is clearly mistaken.

Cheers,

UA-NYC

Gary has an interesting potential update for the program:

http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea....uite-upgrades/

Looks like "we'd" be able to decline SNAs and instead choose more points or other benefits.

Would be a good poll to run once we know what we can actually get!

RogerD408

Do you really mean SNA upgrades? As that is how the program has been presented from day one. SPG chose to say that with the term "selected standard suites". At no time have they said all suites are in the pool. Now that does not prevent a property from offering more and it does give them the ability to game the system and deny the request.

SPG also hides behind the phrase "available at check-in" to obscure the original PLAT upgrades. There are properties that violate the intent of that program too. The idea of giving away a suite when they feel they can sell it is against their business sense, and I can understand that. Being the benefactor of many PLAT upgrades, I've always supported their desire to sell the suite if they can.

Add in the fact that properties are able to show more rooms available than they actually have in any category, only someone at the property can say for sure what is and isn't booked. Looking online is no where near the actual situation. Reliance on the web if downright foolish.

It's easy to think running a hotel is simple business, but I imagine there are a lot of issues I have no idea about. But I do believe that if customers start feeling they are being taken advantage of, they will take their business elsewhere. Marketing hype is designed to cause an increase in business. And touting a new program benefit may cause that to happen, but if they don't deliver, they risk losing any gain received, if not more.

A transparent system will show they are trying to make an honest improvement to their product offering.

Cathay Boy

this seems to be it, something to aspire to, and then to be totally disappointed to its uselessness.

And of course SPG made sure there's no carry-over so you need to stay 50 more nights next year to get them refresh again...

Land-of-Miles

My point here was this is something of a fool me once type option. Once you have tried using SNAs a few times and realised they offer less real value than potential, you fail to be incentivised to keep trying.

It looks like Starwood is preparing to throw some alternative (and I would guess low value) options in place to encourage us to keep flogging a dead horse. Once I hit lifetime Plat (which may happen this year), I will stop playing this game entirely.