ariyo15

Wow. What a brilliant idea! How have I not been doing this?!?! Thank you!!

ikonos

I have 10 nights scheduled in 3 stays in May at a spg property which offers an additional triple points bonus when i book using my company corporate rate code. The other spg properties in the city do not provide that benefit. Is it worth to stay just there and collect those points and accumulate free resort nights slowly? Or hotel hop for faster night accumulation but not get the bonus points?

Also when you do hotel hop, I assume you end up submitting 3 separate hotel bills to your company for expense reimbursement (if you are on business travel) in the A-B-A scenario. How did that go over?

gregorygrady

3 quick questions for Starwood Lurker:
1) Is the inclusion of Phoenician Canyon Suites on the list of redemption resorts this year an error? Or is redemption really allowed there? Last year during FWN, even though it was Cat 6, redemption was not allowed there:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/starw...-excluded.html

2) The Canyon Suites is NOT in fact an all-Suites hotel. Its smallest rooms are 600 Sq Ft, the exact same size as the smallest rooms at the regular Phoenician. How does Canyon Suites justify not having "standard rooms"', rather their cheapest room according to this post are a "Specialty Select Cat 6 Double Upgrade" for 22,500 pts?:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/14428831-post79.html

I would tend to believe the above info is still the case because even when base rooms (Canyon Nonsmoking, 600 Sq Ft) are available for paid stays, spg.com says "Please contact us to redeem your Free Nights", leading me to believe only the upgraded award rooms are available.

3) Is there a "select standard Suite" in the Canyon Suites property? Seems to me the only 2 room options at that property are the 600 Sq Ft base room and the 1200 Sq Ft Canyon Suite. In other words, are Plats officially entitled to any upgrade at the Canyon Suite?

Advance apologies, but as long as you're answering my questions, I'm gonna throw in a 4th question just for good measure as I have always wondered the answer to this:
4) How can SPG justify charging double points for all-Suite property redemptions when the very reason that they are in a higher redemption Cateogry in the first place is because they have a higher ADR strictly because they are an all-Suite property? This doesn't pass the common sense sniff test. I don't often have time to make it to the SPG Forum anymore these days, so if this question has already been asked and answered elsewhere, feel free to point me there.

Thanks in advance for your answers!!!

gregorygrady

This is exactly what I do. I used to worry that they would think it odd that I am giving them 4 folios for a 4-night trip, but my Accounting Dept. never said a word about it to me. Nowadays I basically switch hotels nightly, and I don't even worry about it anymore. They can't be too happy to see my big stack of folios when I turn in my expense report, but it's not that much more work for them than if I ate an additional meal during the day and turned in that receipt..............

Starwood Lurker

No, as far as I know at the moment, this is not a mistake. It appears that The Canyon Suites at The Phoenician wanted to participate as a resort redemption property for this promotion, so they have added the room types that are normally redeemed only as a Specialty Select award to be added to the rate plan developed to redeem for this offer. If this changes, I will certainly come back to update the thread, but since the room types are properly attached to the redemption rate plan, there should be no technical issues.

I'm not aware that anyone has claimed that this property is an all-suites property. If so, that was a mistake. This resort has two award types: Specialty Select and Suite. The Specialty Select award is reserved for the 600 sq. ft. Canyon rooms. The Suite award is reserved for the 1,200 sq. ft. Canyon Suites.

As for justification, the resort, the brand, regional corporate authorities, and SPG have designated the Canyon rooms to be a Specialty Select award room and that is all that is required to justify it...agreement from these entities.

<snip>

Yes, the Canyon Suites attached to the SPG6SU rate plan for this property are available for complimentary Platinum upgrades. There are 38 of them in total.

I think there is a great deal that no one outside the company could claim to fully understand with regard to ADR and how that affects a property's category status, so to apply a "common sniff test" in this instance seems inappropriate because there is a lot of proprietary information a person in this position doing this lacks. I am not even privy to that information, so I can’t believe anyone outside the company is. However, you, and anyone else, are allowed to make whatever assumptions you wish, even if the perception is flawed for being based on incomplete and non-factual information. People make decisions based on their perceptions every day. Those that do not find value in something usually do not buy. Those that do, usually do.

However, we have discussed the cost of redemptions for suites before, but let's do it again here. A suite is usually twice the size of a normal room. Not always, but usually. Larger space usually comes with a higher price tag, but that is not the only determining factor when it comes to increased redemption cost. Sometimes preferred views/location comes with a higher price tag as well. In addition, when one uses a paid rate, one pays a premium in price for booking a suite rather than room. So, it makes sense that a higher redemption cost is also required for booking a suite as an award. This could also apply in the instance where a preferred view/location is involved. Regardless, SPG has set the redemption cost for a suite at twice as much as a normal room. Whether that passes muster for some really isn't up for discussion. It simply is what it is and folks are allowed to buy or take a pass. If enough folks don’t buy, then I suspect SPG will analyze and adjust its redemption costs as necessary.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Social Media Specialist
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

[email protected]

sc flier

I see that these Specialty Select rooms are also being offered on the C&P rate plan for nearly every day through Oct 2012. So I really don't understand why these remain as "Specialty Select" awards for regular award redemption unless it's so they can have capacity controls on awards.

IMO, any hotel or resort that doesn't offer standard awards should be stated as "Limited Participation" by its SPG category on the hotel homepage and on the hotel's Announcements page.

Starwood Lurker

I'm making inquiries on that. Personally, I think the SPGCP thing is a mistake and will disappear (again) soon.

SPG has chosen instead to simply say to call in to book, but I'll pass along your suggestion.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Social Media Specialist
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

[email protected]

sc flier

I considered that possibility! Don't feel as if you have to look into this; it wasn't a complaint. FTers, book it while you can!

If that's the approach that they take, then I would certainly expect the Specialty Select rooms not to have any award blackout dates.

Starwood Lurker

You might have to adjust your expectations. Only standard award rooms have no black-out dates or capacity controls. Upgraded award rooms are subject to both.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Social Media Specialist
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

[email protected]

sc flier

Exactly. And so I expect that any SPG property that is not identified as "Limited Participation" should have some sort of room available without blackout dates or capacity controls in lieu of their failure to offer any standard rooms. The "no blackout" policy is too major of a tenet of the program for any variation to not be disclosed either on the hotel's website or in the SPG T&Cs (or both).

IMO, it's one way or the other: either a property has standard rooms that follow the major promises of the SPG program or the property discloses their variances up front. Any property that has "rooms" but that fails to have any "standard rooms" is not a fully participating SPG property from the customer's viewpoint. There's no reason for anyone to even suspect that the bottom-of-the-line, non-suite room at any property is not a "standard" room.

Starwood Lurker

I think we have a philosophical difference of opinion on this subject. However, I did say I would pass along your suggestion, so I'm willing to leave it at that.

Best regards,

William R. Sanders
Social Media Specialist
Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide

[email protected]

donb25

So much better promo with SPG this year vs. the lackluster Hyatt GP promo.

Thanks a lot!

sc flier

We do, and I accept that. I appreciate you passing along feedback! ^

gregorygrady

Thank you for the quick response and clarification. I'm very happy to hear that Canyon Suites is participating in FRN this year, and that they do offer Plat upgrades there!!!


I was referring to the link I provided stating a Plat Conierge told somebody last Fall that Canyon Suites was an all-Suites property.

I'm in total agreement with scflier regarding this one. I'm very disappointed that this property can seemingly strongarm SPG into bending their rules just for them.

I don't claim to "fully" understand it. Of course there are probably 10 other variables that factor into a hotel's Category, such as average reimbursement from SPG back to the hotel, percentage of award redemptions at that hotel compared to the average, what percentage of (and how many total) awards are redeemed at that particular hotel when it is 95% full or more, etc. Based on that, I'm halfway surprised a new Category 8 wasn't created for St Regis Monarch Beach due to all the FWN redemptions there last summer when the hotel was sold out nearly every weekend at an ADR of $500+. Maybe FWN/FRN type reimbursements are done differently, possibly only 75% of standard reimbursement?
You can claim I don't understand it......and that it's only my perception, but I will still take the best info I have available and apply a common sense sniff test. And my sniff test says that SPG charging double for all-Suite properties is unfair when the ADR and hotel Category already takes this into account. Your final sentence is spot on though. I do not find value in an all-Suite redemption, and I will never redeem for one (unless you someday allow FWN/FRN redemption at them ). In fact, you could eliminate all Cat 7 hotels from SPG and I wouldn't mind one bit. I don't even consider those part of the SPG program based on how absurd their redemption rates are (barring the 30/35k properties such as St Regis NYC, which ARE fairly priced).

I've been reading your posts for 8 years now William. You are a very smart man. I'm pretty sure you don't really believe the above and are just writing that confusing paragraph above to throw me off so you can stand firm with the company line. None of your points above are really relavent to my question.

Hypothetical situation:

There are 2 SPG hotels on the same street corner. Both hotels have an ADR of $400 per night. Hotel A has no Suites, just standard rooms. Hotel B is an all-Suites hotel. William, I know you have enough common sense that you DON'T REALLY BELIEVE that the all-Suites hotel should require twice as many points in this case. Regardless of how big the rooms are, all that really matters is how much they cost relative to each other. Unfortunately, the SPG program itself doesn't have this type of common sense. If you want to charge double for a Suite in a regular hotel, fine. If you want to charge double for an entire all-Suites hotel, not fine. Use some common sense SPG!!!!! (BTW, the last sentence is directed to SPG, not you the messenger William).

Regardless of how I feel on this matter, thank you for your response Starwood Lurker. I certainly very much appreciate you answering all my questions. ^

gregorygrady

Agree 100%!!! The exact reason they do this is so they can turn on and off the award spigot whenever they want. Very shady IMHO. Frankly, I'm really surprised SPG allows an individual hotel to flout its guidelines like this. IIRC though, the Phoenician was one of the top 5 or so highest profit?/revenue? producing properties for SPG when I looked at the numbers a couple years ago. And you yourself posted that these 2 Phoenician properties acct for 40% of SPG's AAA 5-Diamond properties in North America. So maybe SPG cuts them some slack.

I assume the property desparately wants to fill rooms when it's 110 degrees out in the middle of the summer. But when it's Nov/December and everybody wants to get out of the cold and go to PHX, Canyon Suites all of a sudden doesn't want to annoy their high roller guests (who are shelling out $600 per night for a room or $1000+ a night for a Suite) with a bunch of freeloaders trying to burn their remaining FRNs and swilling PBRs out of their styrofoam cooler by the pool. I can certainly see the hotel's viewpoint here.

By convincing SPG to let them market their lowest level room as a Specialty Select room, they just completely got around SPG's no capacity control guidelines.............................and now the hotel has COMPLETE control over when they want to offer awards and how many they want to offer. Big disappointment as an SPG customer. I remember the good old days when SPG had tight control over their properties (at least it sure seemed that way). Doesn't seem to be the case much anymore unfortunately. I wonder what happened?